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How will lemmy instances survive if they get too big?
(lemmy.world)
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this post was submitted on 06 Jul 2023
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Asklemmy
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I think we’ll see a variety of servers with different funding models, similar to how radio and tv stations in the us can have a variety of funding models. NPR has a network of member stations that all carry their content (if the stations want, or they can get content from another station, or they can make it themselves).
Threads is an example of a federated service with a corporate funding model. I definitely think it’ll survive since they have as much money as Facebook wants to sink into it.
But we’ll probably also see servers that run on donations by a dedicated community.
If Threads is the NBC/CBS/ABC of the federated landscape, then those small servers will be like public radio stations, which operate on donations and the occasional government grant.
I think there are people who would chip in a little bit to fund a non-commercial server just the same as there are people who chip in money to NPR.
I'm posting from a self hosted server running on a raspberry pi! While no long term test has been carried out yet, it's really snappy :3
I wonder how the network will scale if more and more would self-hosts small instances with just 2-4 users. If it would decrease load or increase load on the instances that hold popular communities.
I'm pretty sure it's a net increase in load, saying this from my own small instance here. I don't want to primarily use the big instances - that's why I started my own. But lemmy.world encompasses so much that any load I would've prevented by subscribing to communities outside of lemmy.world is probably negated by lemmy.world already being subscribed to that community. And even if we're just counting lemmy.world content, pretty sure it's a net increase because browsing lemmy.world just shows aggregate votes and paginated lists. When federating they're sending everything, even the 90% of stuff I and my users never even see. I wonder what the tipping point is, where the load of federating communities is outweighed by the load saved by not constantly reloading lists and whatnot. I bet it's at least 10.
EDIT: Also wanted to add there's proposals for how to spread out the load without having to switch protocols or anything. I certainly wouldn't mind my own instance being used to forward stuff on.
I agree, I would like to contribute cpu and memory from my instance to the Lemmy network somehow, without users needing to have an account on my instance.
But it doesn't work that way currently. Lemmy.world became the largest instance and then we have hundreds of small ones hardly being used at all.
Smaller instances cannot be trusted to have good uptime. For me I have to go down if there is a thunderstorm, need to unplug everything >.< So would need to save individual data to 2-3 smaller instances for it to be reliable.
I hope there might be a community and user transfer functionality. Could spread the load over the currently well hosted but low pop instances. Right now you need to stick with the instance you choose for all eternity :< forever and ever
Why can't they be trusted? They most likely run in the cloud somewhere and won't have any issues staying up. :)
My instance has 100% uptime after a month of use, which is more than the largest instances.
I feel like people mostly leave their small instance alone and don't touch it.
Perhaps just not sure how they are hosted, if they are majority cloud hosted that's a different thing :3 Assumed smaller instances would run on a home server of some kind.
Would be a nice ask lemmy post perhaps ^^
Since you need a fixed ip address and domain name, it usually rules out running at home, also because internet delivery companies usually don't provide very good upload speeds to users at home.
So I think you can trust the uptime for sure, but one risk is that smaller instances may decide to shut down if they don't get any users. So there is that risk... :)
There is some pros of self hosting, outside of it being a fun project. You can get custom emojis (sadly not on the mobile app yet, otherwise there would be a :blobheart: right here) and custom themes ^^
So I don't think most small instances are necessary looking to increase in user size. Or at least that is not my intention.
Yeah themes are fun but I think most people use one of the android apps anyway, and then the local theme doesnt matter there.
But it cant hurt to make the web theme a bit nicer - its currently "functional" but maybe not the best looking. I actually like a lot of whitespace in web design, but a lot of people dont.
One of the suggestions was a gossip protocol, which wouldn't need 100% (or close to 100%) uptime. Wouldn't be outside of the realm of ActivityPub either, it's not specific about how messages can be routed kind of like how Email can be passed around a bunch before actually arriving at their intended destination. It would be a layer on top of AP though so maybe Kbin wouldn't be able to join the network. For communities, the only one I actually saw Nutomic or dessalines be interested in is this fediverse enhancement proposal about making groups in such a way that can be hosted on multiple instances. A few large instances could come together to cohost and spread the load between them.
When you say groups that is communities in lemmy terms? ^^ Not fluent in the terminology but with a functionality like this how would you receive older posts? Seems like newer linked instances would start with a blank slate from the point of "bounding".
Or am I just butchering the meaning with my understanding? hehe
Yes that's right, Lemmy communities are communicated as groups in ActivityPub, so that FEP would be applicable to communities