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submitted 7 months ago by iii@mander.xyz to c/asklemmy@lemmy.world

What signals do you look for? Do you decide based on reason or instinct?

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[-] Libb@piefed.social 2 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

You can't do without whatever it is you need, you can do without whatever it is you want.

I want to read that specific book but I need to be able to read.

At the most fundamentals, we need very little: food, shelter and then to be able to reproduce. But there are other 'needs', those would just be the true basic ones.

[-] iii@mander.xyz 2 points 7 months ago

and then to be able to reproduce.

Why would you classify that as a need? It's a biological -intuitive- desire, is my interpretation.

(Your interpretation is valid either way, I'm not trying to argue for or against. Just want to learn other's point of view, maybe change mine in the process)

[-] Libb@piefed.social 2 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

Why would you classify that as a need? It’s a biological -intuitive- desire, is my interpretation.

Your remark is 100% correct, don't worry. I (too) hastily replied to the OP as in regards to the reproducing mention I should have specified I was not considering the individual but the species.

As a species, we need to perpetuate. All species do, us included. which does not mean all members of said species must/should/need to reproduce. More often than not, it will be quite the opposite. Edit: says I, a 50+ years old married dude without children ;)

[-] yeahiknow3@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

Needs are instrumental to some normative goal. You might have a reason to believe, do, or act. To that end, you have “needs.”

Desires are just natural facts, like headaches. Desires aren’t rational or irrational. They just are. The way you respond to your desires can be good or bad, but the desire itself is something that’s happening to you.

So, for instance, happiness might be one of your values. To that end, you have something like Maslow’s hierarchy of needs to worry about.

You also have to contend with a laundry list of desires, fulfilling some of which could make you happy or sad. Rationality is your sensitivity and responsiveness to facts that count in favor of acting on (or eschewing) these desires.

[-] iii@mander.xyz 1 points 7 months ago

Needs are instrumental to some normative goal.

Can you elaborate please as I don't quite understand? Normative goal, as in societal norm? Where does the goal come from?

[-] quediuspayu@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 7 months ago

Those two are rather different, but a rule of thumb could be... a need, as the word implies, is necessary, to keep going or to achieve something else. A desire would be nice but you can live without it.

[-] iii@mander.xyz 1 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

to keep going or to achieve something else

I feel like this is a Matryoshka answer? At least for me the difference isn't as clear as you claim it is.

How do you know whether the thing you want to achieve, or the things you want to keep on going, is a need or a desire?

(I guess I just woke up with monday morning existential dread haha.)

Mmm. I'd put them both in the spectrum of want, where need is simply further in, being more "pressing", a thirst that physically or psychologically "has to be quenched". Biological stuff like hunger and the need for sleep are here but I mean, you don't have to fulfill them because you can just die and it's not like the universe would crumble because of it. It's not "necessary".

And, whilst reason can help you understand these wants (and classify them and even curtail them), they come up by themselves. Like, even infants understand injustice and hate it and wanna "make things right" (YT has several videos on the topic), even if they don't have the words to express it yet.

Hopefully what I said here makes some sort of sense, lol.

[-] iii@mander.xyz 2 points 7 months ago

Hopefully what I said here makes some sort of sense, lol.

Yes. It's what I'm gravitating towards as well. That it's all mostly biological. And reason is there only to more easily quench those instinct. I like the rephrasing as "wants".

That in reason exists no reason to be.

[-] sp3ctr4l@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

Well, I almost always try to reason through my own actions, or have already done that reasoning and then come up with a set of guidelines.

To try to put them simply:

Will I likely die or become gravely ill or seriously injured or degrade my body or mind in an extreme manner or experience extreme pain without this thing or activity or... state of being?

If yes, then its a need.

Everything else is a want.

There are of course different tiers of wants and needs.

And, people are different, and some things may move up and down those tiers, and people will never fully agree on every different thing... also, addiction becomes a relevant concept to consider.

This one guy Maslow had some ideas about that once.

[-] remon@ani.social 1 points 7 months ago

If I'd die without it, it's a need. Otherwise a desire.

[-] DeathByBigSad@sh.itjust.works 0 points 7 months ago

Counterpoint: You do not die* without legal documents, but having legal documents still a "need" in most modern civilizations, can't even get most jobs if you do not have an ID.

(*well, not immediately, anyways, you can always beg for food or shoplift)

[-] remon@ani.social 1 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

but having legal documents still a “need” in most modern civilization

Not really, plenty of people are undocumented or live somewhere illegally. It's very desirable to have legal status, but it's not a need.

[-] Vanth@reddthat.com 1 points 7 months ago

Raised Catholic. Anything that makes me feel guilty is a desire.

this post was submitted on 13 Oct 2025
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