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So now we can add “directly capturing a sovereign leader” to the list of crap the US has done. So what do you think will actually be “the straw that broke the camels back” for world leaders to actually do something? Think it’ll be significant or something mundane?

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[-] mycodesucks@lemmy.world 27 points 4 months ago

I hate to say it, but there's no fast answer to that question.

The best answer seems to be what most smart countries are doing right now... slowly unwinding their dependency on the US and finding alternative suppliers for everything critical they need so they can get the leverage they need to criticize and resist. This has the added benefit of isolating the US economically, reducing its currency's ability to influence things.

Over time the US will grow less and less able to throw its weight around, and eventually a tipping point will be reached where picking an ideological fight with the US won't have a major impact. That's when the US will be stopped.

[-] ramble81@lemmy.zip 4 points 4 months ago

Logically that makes sense for an elongated timeline, but that also assumes the US doesn’t ramp up their actions, which sadly seems to be the case. So the question is “what then?”

[-] CosmicTurtle0@lemmy.dbzer0.com 6 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

Nations can't ignore the fact that the US has one of the most active militaries in the world. Our Navy is more of less second to none and we have nukes. In the hands of a normal president, we might be fine but you sure as heck know that Trump and his Project 2025 people are just itching to launch one.

This is a situation where there are no good options. The best you can do is continue political pressure, get other nations to rally behind you in the hopes of creating a strong economic resistance.

But the real answer is that we, the US citizens, need to fucking take this country back. I hate to say it but protests simply aren't enough anymore.

[-] Proprietary_Blend@lemmy.world 5 points 4 months ago

Protests would be a good start

[-] PlaidBaron@lemmy.world 5 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

Protests only work if the government feels beholden to its people. It doesnt. Protests arent enough.

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[-] BranBucket@lemmy.world 15 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

Well, if you take good old-fashioned violence out of the picture, money. Or specifically a lack of it.

Sanctions, selling off US debt, more retaliatory tariffs, blacklisting US investors and companies, anything that pulls cash out of the US economy and puts it somewhere else. Turn off the money tap, make the mega-donors hurt bad enough and the dystopia machine will eventually grind to a halt. Don't think for a moment that the current squad of high-functioning sociopaths that are enabling this are principled enough to stay the course after a few of their mega-yachts are repossessed. They'll flip sides again and again just to try and keep that horde they've built up. Someone just has to prove to them that the threat is serious, because right now, they think everyone else is helpless against them.

Additionally, the majority of Trump voters cited the economy as a primary reason for voting for him. A good portion of them were probably lying to cover for being racist and just wanted to see POC and the LGBTQ+ community suffer, but if you crash the US economy hard enough, you can still hijack a big chunk of Trump's public support. It's the same as with mega-yachts, but here we're talking pickup trucks, ATVs, and rent-to-own furniture.

Few problems with this. 1. It's slow. 2. It'll hurt everyone else economically because US businesses have hooks set real deep in a lot of places. 3. Other nations have a wealthy elite with similar sway who want Trump in power for various reasons and might not play along. & 4. Whoever replaces the US might turn out to be just as big as bully in a few years if we're not careful.

Still, it needs to be done.

EDIT: It’s like the old saying goes, everything is about money, except money, which is about power.

[-] kreskin@lemmy.world 14 points 4 months ago

complete worldwide boycott of american products. America is run by oligarchs who only care about money. They'd fold overnight.

[-] discocactus@lemmy.world 3 points 4 months ago

Not a boycott of products, a divestment from the dollar and the US stock market. Sell all treasury bonds. It's possible.

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[-] Almacca@aussie.zone 10 points 4 months ago

The world should at the very least be imposing economic sanctions on the US.

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[-] DylanMc6@lemmy.dbzer0.com 10 points 4 months ago

Someone who's around 40 should take for the team and run for President in the 2028 election and campaign the way Zohran Mamdani did when he ran for mayor - run on a left-populist class conscious platform. Seriously!

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[-] DupaCycki@lemmy.world 7 points 4 months ago

My best guess is mass riots/civil war. The main reasons why it's not happening yet are because Trump still has a good number of supporters and because Americans are - rightfully - afraid of their police (or soldiers) killing them.

Trump is steadily losing his supporters every week, and the number of people at risk of dying due to lack of food or healthcare is increasing. If your life is at serious risk anyway, might as well get a shot at a revolution. And the more people willing to do it with you, the better the chances.

However, I'm not sure how realistic this scenario is. I'm concerned that a change of government for a slightly better one may be enough for most Americans to calm down. After all, they're very much used to being abused by their elites, whether they realize it or not.

[-] Limerance@piefed.social 5 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

A civil war, mass riots, general strike, etc. only happens when people are really suffering. For the most part Americans are still doing pretty okay.

American society is also atomized. Mass political movements are rare and often fizzle out like occupy wallstreet or BLM. There’s widespread dissatisfaction with politics in general. So far nobody has found a way or even wanted to tap that besides MAGA

You’re overlooking that MAGA is an actually revolutionary movement in many ways. MAGA has already managed to storm a government building. The revolution is already happening with Trump at the helm. It’s not going the way you want.

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[-] Jhex@lemmy.world 6 points 4 months ago

WW3 fought in mainland USA…

The usa has only ever benefitted from war… once they taste it at home and have cities to rebuild, they may drop the deadly combination of chicken hawk and apathy that seems to be their take on war

[-] ikidd@lemmy.world 4 points 4 months ago

I don't think we want to see what the world's biggest military would do if there were large-scale attacks on American soil. This planet would be a smoking ruin before calmer heads prevailed. They lost their fucking minds for more than a decade after the WTC strikes and still haven't recovered, and are currently backsliding.

Man, fuck that.

[-] Jhex@lemmy.world 3 points 4 months ago

I didn't say this should happen… I said I thought it's what would be needed for the usa to change

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[-] Wigglesworth@retrolemmy.com 6 points 4 months ago

Mother Nature: cracks knuckles "lemme in, coach"

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[-] EndlessNightmare@reddthat.com 6 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

STOP REPRODUCING

There's a reason that leadershit is absolutely pissing their pants about declining fertility rates.

The funny thing is that they'll try to shame us, bribe us, or even force us (e.g. via attacks on abortion rights and contraceptives). But they refuse to meaningfully address the underlying reasons why people are increasingly saying "no thanks, I'm good" regarding becoming parents.

[-] givesomefucks@lemmy.world 6 points 4 months ago

It might have already happened...

Capturing a foreign leader you're not at war with like this is a huge fucking deal, but it hasn't even been 24 hrs yet, we can't act like there won't be a response.

Not anything overt, but our election system is sloppy as fuck.

Why wouldn't foreign governments start using all the loopholes to pay (relatively) nothing to limit his powers in midterms and get rid of him in the presidential? A couple million thru a PAC isn't even really breaking any laws, and compared to the cost of the chaos from trump, it's a no brainer decision.

It's why turnout for primaries is so important. We have to ensure that the people who make it to the general are going to be good in office.

[-] Buffalox@lemmy.world 6 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

Friendly nations do not meddle in each others elections. Russia did to USA because they are NOT a friendly nation, and to sow discord. Israel does it to USA also because they are not a friendly nation, they are focused 100% on their own agenda, and that includes ensuring USA supports it.
Trump/MAGA has already intervened in elections in for instance EU, and that's because USA is no longer a friendly nation to EU.
But I seriously doubt most of USA's traditional allies will meddle in USA's election, because it's just not something you do as a civilized country, because it violates that country's sovereignty.

[-] ODGreen@lemmy.ca 4 points 4 months ago

If you play by the rules while your enemy doesn't, you'll be destroyed. Machiavelli said as much. So USA's traditional allies have to start playing dirty to survive.

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[-] mrdown@lemmy.world 6 points 4 months ago
[-] tate@lemmy.sdf.org 6 points 4 months ago

Or just a US revolution could work. We don't have to kill everyone.

[-] mrdown@lemmy.world 7 points 4 months ago

That would be a good solution but world war 3 looks more probable

[-] Good4Nuthin@lemmy.world 4 points 4 months ago

you misspelled profitable.

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[-] laranis@lemmy.zip 6 points 4 months ago

Time. A regime as dysfunctional as this can't go on indefinitely... Like, it is physically impossible for it to think far enough ahead for it to be resilient enough to last. Unfortunately, a lot of good people will suffer before then.

[-] Darkness343@lemmy.world 5 points 4 months ago

Kidnap their leaders while they sleep

[-] UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 5 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

I think losing an aircraft carrier would give the US serious pause. Outside that, no idea. Maybe we finally pull the trigger and nuke someone, and that scares the rest of the world enough to start actively sanctioning us. Maybe not, though.

It does seem like most of Europe, Canada, and East Asia are happy to be in the pocket of US financial interests. Even folks who don't like Trump haven't bothered to break away from JP Morgan or Goldman Sachs.

Nobody wants to risk fucking with the money of the global hegemon. And so long as the US is the wealthiest nation on Earth, what's going to deter them?

[-] SpaceCowboy@lemmy.ca 2 points 4 months ago

And so long as the US is the wealthiest nation on Earth, what’s going to deter them?

I think the answer to your question is contained within the question. Americans are greedy people and a coordinated effort by China, Japan, and the UK could sink the US economy.

But I doubt that would even be necessary. Why kill someone intent on suicide? The US economy will likely collapse on it's own if it continues on the path it's on. I'm not talking about some recession like in 2008, I'm talking a collapse you've never experienced. Something similar to the collapse of the Soviet Union.

Also if you were going down the military strike route, an aircraft carrier would be stupid. Trump has broadcast to the entire world what the achilles heal of the US is and it isn't the aircraft carriers. It's something that's dug up from the ground and needs to be processed by refineries.

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[-] harrys_balzac@lemmy.dbzer0.com 5 points 4 months ago

The US has directly captured or supported the overthrow of multiple heads of state. Nobody has ever done anything and they won't now.

Too many Americans are actually supportive of this so there won't be any major domestic repercussions. Maybe some hearings in Congress.

America is not going to fix itself. The corruption is built in. For the last 50 years (roughly), the system has been changed to make the people dumb and complacent; to make the President a puppet king who answers to the wealthy.

[-] KelvarCherry@lemmy.blahaj.zone 4 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

Trump isn't a one-off outsider - he's what the Republican Party has been transitioning to. The attacks on Venezuela, while outrageous on a global scale, is actually more in-line with prior Republican presidents than most of this first year of Trump-2.

Bush Sr. did the same in deploying in the Middle East against Sadam Hussein, which Bernie Sanders notably called out. This was in 1991.

For decades the USA has been transitioning to fascism. Our schools teach obedience and have been cutting back civics courses and high-level analysis. Our workers are exhausted and struggling to make ends meet, many now working several jobs (normalized via the term "side hustle"). The media landscape has been bought by billionaires and oligarchs. Our culture of consumerism keeps us pacified.

I hate to be a doomer, which is all I've been for the last half-year, but time after time USAmericans have cobbled together sizable movements despite our disadvantages: Occupy Wall Street; The strong anti-war movements; Now the "No King's Protests". It's not working and I don't see how it will ever work. We have had massive protests, and our leaders laugh at us spit in our faces. They do not care. No amount of signaling our desires will make them care.

Call me a "radical" or an "accelerationist". I don't care at this point. Everything we've seen wrong with Russia and China is happening here, and we are doing as little as modern-day Russians and Chinese citizens. Peaceful protests are not working.

[-] heyWhatsay@slrpnk.net 5 points 4 months ago

If other counties boycotted instead of caving into demands, that would have an influence.

[-] 18107@aussie.zone 4 points 4 months ago

If other countries threatened/targeted members of the heritage foundation instead of enlisted soldiers.

It's very easy (for sociopaths) to ignore threats on other people's lives.

[-] Lumisal@lemmy.world 3 points 4 months ago

For starters, not relying on US payment processors.

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[-] olbaidiablo@lemmy.ca 3 points 4 months ago

Invading or pissing off Japan, China or Canada. All of whom own a sizable amount of the US national debt. Any one of whom can dump said debt and cause a default on the US debt causing hyperinflation. With hyperinflation, they can't pay for their military and thus are dead in the water.

[-] Objection@lemmy.ml 3 points 4 months ago

It's a slow, ongoing process. The more the US tries to use force to make countries fall in line, the more people look to alternatives. Countries that used to be unaligned are looking at China and countries that used to be aligned with the US are looking at playing the field.

[-] SpaceCowboy@lemmy.ca 3 points 4 months ago

Yup. Sadly the US has handed the 21st century to China without a fight.

I remember what some Hong Kong dude said to me once... "China is the future, and it's a bleak future".

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[-] Witchfire@lemmy.world 3 points 4 months ago

War, either world or civil. Unfortunately I don't see any other way at this point

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[-] Resonosity@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 points 4 months ago

Nuclear disarmament. Hasanabi Doctrine.

Arm the nations you want to be able to defend themselves, and disarm the ones you don't.

The US will fall as soon as its nukes are removed or destroyed. Hopefully peacefully.

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[-] MuskyMelon@lemmy.world 3 points 4 months ago

To stop this immediate idiocy, Trump has to have a massive stroke, just enough to debilitate him but necessarily replace him. MAGA isn't going to blindly follow Vance cause he's got zero MAGA charisma. The GOP controlled Congress is going to be stuck between implementing 25A or not, cause if they remove Trump they're committing political suicide.

So the best bet is for a lame duck government as a whole.

[-] muusemuuse@sh.itjust.works 3 points 4 months ago

Regimes like this only respond to incredible violence. They believe rules and laws and norms that don’t serve them don’t apply to them. All the systems designed to resist this bullshit are ignored completely because they just opt out of society’s rules while rewriting them on the fly to serve exclusively them.

This ends a couple of different ways. One is they encounter a bigger bully. They are all loyalists that cannot strategize, cooperate, and execute a plan. It’s yes men all the way down. So if someone powerful enough takes a swing, they don’t have the ability to respond. In this case, Canada invading the US with resources supplied by other nations concerned they are next makes the most sense. This administration wouldn’t be able to respond with anything other than tantrums online and on TV.

The other way this ends is letting them do whatever they want. They need an enemy to survive. Eventually they run out of enemies and have to invent new ones. We are already at that point. They divide the population up into good guys and bad guys and eliminate the bad guys, then they do it again, getting smaller and smaller each time until there’s no longer enough people left to sustain them. This is not the way we want as most of the US would have to die off for it to work but it is sort of the default mode of extinction for fascism.

The only method that works with fascists and results in the fewest casualties is incredible overwhelming violence. It’s been done before and worked because it was the best option, even if it’s still a terrible one.

But here’s where the propaganda machine protects the fascists. People are already ready for the incredible violence. The country is on a cliff edge right now. But we are so divided and dependent on TV and social media that we are told to attack eachother instead of the fascists. Most of us don’t want to do that.

So we wait for extinction.

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[-] Formfiller@lemmy.world 2 points 4 months ago
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this post was submitted on 03 Jan 2026
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