I don't see an issue. The original still exists. If you like that better, then you don't have to watch the new remasters.
This is a far less invasive deal than when Lucas created the Special Editions of the original trilogy with all the bad CG everywhere (edit: oh yeah, and then he tried his hardest to actually phase out the original versions from EXISTENCE)
But the issue here is that True Lies and The Abyss never had an official HD release. They've been streamed briefly and there is a HD bootleg of True Lies in Spain but the best available official quality was DVD. The Abyss wasn't even an anamorphic DVD and that's been the only official version to buy for the last twenty years.
I watched (a rip of) the DVHS HD release of True Lies with some friends about a year ago. I think it’s a US release. It looked ok.
Your point still stands. An obscure format release that few ever owned hardly counts. And the DVHS definitely looks like an older style master.
Yeah, I think the DVHS is the source of the Spanish bootleg but it's had a few fine filters run over it as well. I watched True Lies when it hit Disney+ and years earlier I found an Amazon rip. Those were definitely different masters from his the 4k now looks.
and removing the ewok dance scene. lup dup!
If people actually are upset by the restorations, is it because it's getting rid of the nostalgic feel? Or is it genuinely making the movie "feel" different?
It's not like they're adding a new cantina song
Check out the examples in the 4K section of the Blu-ray forums. True Lies is the worst, followed by Aliens and The Abyss comes off the best.
The image has been upscaled and with the use of AI, the image has been scrubbed of all the grain.
Unfortunately, the image now looks pretty bad in places with smooth waxy faces and strange anomalies as AI tries to improve the picture.
I would've thought they would scan the original camera negatives, or next best thing, and then apply a little DNR to remove a little of the grain but apparently, this is what Cameron wanted.
I'd be ok with the 4k if they left the grain in. This is sort of like hos CBS replaced all the special effects on the original Star Trek series. It's just not good.
I liked the new effects on TOS. A lot of the original ones looked terrible and they did generally keep the style so phasers beams and such don't look out of place.
Alien's film grain is part of the movie's look, though. It contributes to the atmosphere.
Wait... they used existing FHD/2K scans and upscaled those? And it still took this long for these to be released?
Thank fucking god fan preservation efforts happen with 16 and 35mm film reel scans.
I dunno. I haven't seen the 4k Alien yet but the grainy film I think deff added to the overall feel to it. It made it feel dirtier and more lived in. But I'll watch the 4k version. As far as people getting upset, I think it's a mix of "how dare you change the thing I like" and "leave well enough alone, just give us more new content".
It's stupid though, they haven't changed the thing people like, it's still there...
Yeah, but you've met people though, right?
The problem is that physical media is taking a back seat to streaming, and companies like Disney may only offer the newer version.
So the thing you like may be replaced with something you don't like the look of, and if you hadn't procured a copy before, tough shit.
That's really more of an admonition of streaming than AI upscaling, though
I hope physical media becomes popular again as people realize they don't want to be fed what they want...
Also the whole Star Wars Special Edition debacle (which has never been resolved) has everyone really nervous about these kinds of things.
Like it or not, it does change the original image, but not necessarily the intended image. I don’t think it’s in the same league as film colorization or adding a musical number to Jabba’s palace, but it may be necessary to smooth what was intended. If you’ve ever seen the videos of painting restorations, I’m inclined to think it’s something like that. Removing that aged, discolored layer to get to what’s beneath, or, as intended. I haven’t seen the new Aliens or The Abyss yet, so I can’t give an opinion on those. I watched The Last Action Hero and it seemed there were some “ironed out” scenes, but not jarring the way bad blue screening could be, like in The Last Crusade. That’s the kind of stuff I’d like to see get fixed. In fact, it’s unfortunate that oldies like Toy Story can’t be given an updated treatment. New textures, shading, etc. Rewatching old Pixar is not enjoyable. I’d like to see Pixar remasters. You’d think that would be easy to do since its mostly ones and zeroes.
It's like vinyl where the flaws are part of the experience. The original format is objectively worse but nostalgically better.
You can't really compare film and 4k digital video, they are very different things.
restored with AI assistance
Oh... no thank you.
Scan at as a high a DPI as present technology lets you. Don't have a computer hallucinate new film which was never there. That way lies having AI puppet dead actors for scenes that were never shot.
I'll still with my Ultra SD Laserdisc copy, thank you.
I don't think AI assistance is inherently bad. The issue is when they just call it a day without checking it over and making their own adjustments afterwards.
We've seen plenty of terrible AI upscaling, but I'm sure there's also upscaling and restoration that's been done with AI assistance where no-one's even noticed the fact that AI was used because it was used well.
I agree, but in terms of preservation it should be as FfaerieOxide says. That way better algorithms can be used on those scans in the future.
And people should have choices over whether they want a version that's just the high quality scan only, or whether they want the AI upscale version. Personally I like the film grain, the super clean look just doesn't feel right. But if people want the super clean look, I'm not going to be stopping them from having it.
And we don't want to get into the same situation as with the Star Wars OT where all kinds of alterations are made but you can't legally get a version without those alterations.
I agree that keeping the original versions is important, even if it's just in a vault somewhere.
And people should have choices over whether they want a version that’s just the high quality scan only, or whether they want the AI upscale version.
It would certainly be nice for people to have that choice, but I guess it's up to the creator(s) whether they want to offer that choice. I agree it sucks for consumers to not be able to (legally) access older versions any more, but I also think it's fair enough for artists to no longer sell their works if that's what they want.
I think there's too much emphasis on the "artists" for this. I think there's a death of the author kind of deal where once a thing is out there, it's up to the audience what it means. Well it's not that the audience 100% owns it, but it shouldn't be 100% the artist's decision either. If you're making art for yourself then keep it to yourself. But If you're making art for others then what those people want matters too.
Legally it's what the owners of the copyright want that ultimately decides it. But morally speaking, actively preventing people from seeing the thing they saw before seems wrong to me. People change which means artists change. Sometimes you just like an artist's earlier work better and having the artist later on in life alter it means you're no longer able to really see the artist's earlier work.
With Star Wars the best version is almost always a fan cut anyway.
4k77 looks pretty good
I get that as someone who uses 'Fuzzy Select' to a certain extent I'm full oh shit here, but I don't think things which can't perceive should be putting out art.
I also see no point in "re"storing art to a higher quality or resolution than it originally was. That seems like wasted effort which could have been directed toward a sequel.
I'd agree that just taking the raw output from an AI and putting it out without any changes probably isn't going to go well. But I don't think there's any harm in a human using it as a tool - much like you using "fuzzy select" in Photoshop doesn't have any effect on someone's judgement/appreciation of your end result. Because ultimately, to the audience, the result is the important thing, not the process. 99% of people aren't going to care how it was done, just that they like how it looks.
I also see no point in "re"storing art to a higher quality or resolution than it originally was. That seems like wasted effort which could have been directed toward a sequel.
I don't see it this way, personally. I've definitely seen films where dated special effects or other technical aspects can break my immersion. I'm not someone who'll refuse to watch old films, but it doesn't necessarily mean I don't appreciate things being updated to meet more modern technical standards (ideally the old versions will be preserved, though) if the original artistic vision can be upheld (or even executed on even better than at the time).
As for directing that effort towards a sequel, I think there are plenty of reasons why they might not want to. Maybe they don't have any further stories they want to tell with the characters or setting. Maybe the actors don't want to be involved. Maybe they have an idea but can't get a good script going. Maybe they can't get financing. A couple of people going through upscaling/restoring the film is very different from creating a new film!
I just watched the True Lies 4K. There were 2-3 shots where I noticed an in-your-face AI sharpening effect, mostly near the middle of the movie when they were doing close-ups in outdoor light. Those shots just looked bad (like someone used a Photoshop blurring filter followed by sharpening filter on the faces too many times). That said, those were relatively brief and otherwise the film looked great.
And that was while actively looking for it. I doubt most people will even notice those shots, to be honest.
It was a bit strange to see absolutely no film grain, though.
Yeah, I'm starting to think it looks worse in stills rather than motion. I just mentioned to someone that when I watch a 4K film, I start by being amazed with the details, but once the film gets going, I'm sucked into the story and forget everything else.
On Reddit we have r/dvdcollection, r/boutiquebluray, r/4kbluray, r/steelbook, r/vhs, etc but let's start simply with a community to cover all the forms of home video collecting.
So, do you feel nostalgic for a format? Are you looking forward to a release? Heard any exciting news? Want to show us your shelves? Then post away.
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