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this post was submitted on 29 Dec 2023
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Bro, it's like they wanna lose to badly next year election. Listen to the people voting for you, for fuck sake.
Lots of us believe in Israel's right to defend itself. You're on Lemmy, so it can seem that this isn't a divided or divisive issue, but I assure you it is--especially among people who know their history. Another reason the bulk of the 18-24 group is making up a lot of the Hamas sympathizers.
Not looking to debate it eith you, but I PROMISE, if you get out of the Lemmy bubble you'll find it's not a cut and dry situation like you framed it.
Yet that's exactly what Israel has done for decades and every gd President has backed them on it.
Nothing ever changes.
sigh
Hamas has launched over 10,000 rockets at Israel in November alone. If Israel is getting bombed, they should be able to defend themselves.
If you had caught me before the Oct attack, we'd probably have agreed on more. All the collective punishment pre Oct was obviously war crimes, and Bibi and much of Likud should be tried and convicted as war criminals. Even with the constant war crimes (with the approval of the Palestinian people) of launching rockets at civilians, collective punishment wasn't warranted.
All the other failed measures were better to try (walls and shit). But it's ridiculous to sit by and not do something about the October attack and encourage these terrorists just like ignoring all their other terrorism for decades has done.
I've yet to hear a realistic and potentially effective solution for dealing with Hamas, other than eradicating them. But I'd love to know how the current efforts could be supplanted by something more effective.
For over two decades, tens of thousands of rockets have been lobbed into Israel with the support of the Palestinanian people who gladly elected Hamas while they did so and continued to do so to this day. This isn't a homogenous group of innocents. That's a Lemmy fantasy.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_rocket_attacks_on_Israel
Currently, they run at 75% approval for the Oct. 7th attack.
There is no nation on earth who would have tolerated two decades of tens of thousands of rockets launched at civilians. And that's while having tried walls, fences, border crossings, and on and on. All of which were decried as barbaric to Gaza (with reason), and which clearly failed to stop rocket attacks, and then October.
The twenty years of rocket attacks launched at civilians by the palestians are all war crimes. There're no innocent parties here.
There's only one difference between Israel and any other nation defending themselves from decades of war crimes and terrorist attacks... you can figure out what that is... just like everyone cries that they're so passionate about the humanitarian crisis, but two of the largest humanitarian situations, Haiti and the DRC (with over 7 million displaced) get jack shit for news coverage.
People cover this conflict bc it's trendy and religion.
They don't continue to elect them to this day. They were elected one time, on a more moderate platform, and there hasn't been an election since. They actually had less than 50% support before the attack, but getting bombed to shit makes you support the only group that's willing to do something about them and fight back, do I get why they're popularity may have risen since then.
Incidentally, that's why bombing the crap out of civilians doesn't stop terrorist groups. All those offers Israel is making just turns into more terrorists. Either that, or they kill all the Palestinians, which is genocide.
No people would tolerate what the Israelis have done to the Palestinians since the start of their occupation. The rockets are their only means of defense,and even those don't do shit. Look at the numbers of dead from each side in every year. It's not even comparavle. Israel isn't defending themselves, they're perpetrating the humanitarian crisis by their treatment of human beings, and then complaining when those people are pushed to the brink and lash out. Then they use it an excuse to do more genocide: displace people, take their land, and kill more children. The US did the same thing to the Native Americans, it's the same playbook.
Yes, I know these delusions and have seen them here on Lemmy and amongst terrorist adjacent apologists all the time. Claims that the terrorists they elected aren't really their elected government. Denying the fact that Hamas is the government of Gaza is just denying facts. People do it here because it doesn't support the false narratives Lemmy loves so much.
The Palestinians elected Hamas, loving their war crimes like suicide bombings, blowing up bus loads of civilians, lobbing endless rockets into civilians, and cheering in the streets about it. Just like they celebrate the Oct attacks with a 75% approval level in Gaza. They didn't trick the Palestinians into thinking they were peaceful, innocent angels, and then go "whoops our bad we are terrorists and war crimianls." No, that's who they elected on purpose.
Oh, and yes, the war crimes you support and apologize for as "their only defense" is just as bad as the rest of your claims. Every one of the tens of thousands of rockets fired has been a war crime. You're an apologist for that. Take the time to sit down and realize how radicalized you already are that you think war crimes like tens of thousands of rockets laumched at civilians are the ONLY way they can defend themselves--your words. Like many here on Lemmy, you're way down a dangerous and slippery slope.
And notice all the bitching and moaning comments, that accompany the thread nobody has a better solution for what's going on to stop the rockets and mass terrorist attacks of the Gazan government. I'm still VERY open to hearing a realistic one. But you're not going to.
Lastly, who are you defining as "the Palestinians", do you count the millions in Jordan, Egypt, etc? Or do you think Gaza is all Palestinians? You diminish the term when you misuse and/or intentionally abuse the term genocide.
It's not delusions, it's called acknowledging facts. Fact:the last election was decades ago. Fact: Most of the population is under 18. Fact: Most of the population didn't participate in that election. Fact: Hamas at the time was more moderate, or appeared to be, supported a two state solution and other more moderate policies. Fact: Most of the population didn't support Hamas until Israel started doing a genocide. These are all facts. The irony of warning of a slippery slope when you're ignoring all of these to defend an oppressive, genocidal, apartheid regime that's killing tens of thousands more civilians, including children, than Palestine is palpable. You're so stuck in your propaganda bubble you don't even realize it.
Everyone knows the solution. Stop oppressing and blockading the Palestinians. Adopt a one state or two solution, give them autonomy, the ability to control their own land, power, sky, sea, trash, water, imports, etc. Either with their own state, or combine all the land into one, give equal protections to all people in a strong constitution, give representation to everyone, setup reconciliation panels to help the nation move past the crimes done and establish a new start, make treaties, etc. It was done in the UK with the Irish and South Africa. Israel thinks their situation is so special and unique, but it's not. It's the same settler colonial situation as all the others, except with Jewish people, so because they went through the holocaust, I guess they get a pass on genocide.
And genocide is what it is, or they're dumb. Otherwise, what's the plan? They're just making more Hamas recruits by making all these orphans. You think they'll like Israel after 30,000 dead? They're either stupid or just plan on killing or displacing all the orphans, too, which is genocide. That's what I'm saying.
Even before now, it looks like the same process, what they've been doing for decades. It's the same as the natives in the US, which everyone would call a genocide, too, btw. It's the same playbook. First, lots of colonialism and taking of land. Next, say they're savage when they retaliate. Then, killing while moving them over bit by bit into smaller and farther pieces of land. Retaliate with huge violence when they try to fight back to kill off tons more and take more land. And their situation gets more desperate and they fight back more, retaliate harder, and repeat. It's like the Nazis saying that it's the only solution after the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising because they too dangerous to govern. No shit, stop oppressing them.