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YouTube --> PeerTube Next? (lemmy.dbzer0.com)

So Elon gutted Twitter, and people jumped ship to Mastodon. Now spez did... you know... and we're on Lemmy and Kbin. Can we have a YouTube to PeerTube exodus next? With the whole ad-pocalypse over there, seems like Google is itching for it.

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[-] ExFed@vlemmy.net 0 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

The Internet is not a "series of tubes" ... It's a packet-switched messaging network. The fact that billions of computers are "connected" to a single address doesn't really mean much other than they've exchanged some messages within the last several minutes (or some other arbitrary amount of time).

You're not wrong: any sizeable web service must distribute to several servers and data centers for performance (e.g. response times and data throughput), and for resiliency (e.g. if a server fails then another one can take over). But the difference is these data centers have a financial incentive to maximize efficiency in both hardware costs and electricity usage (which includes cooling, etc.). Folks self-hosting Lemmy/Mastodon/etc. servers in their basement have much less incentive, and so less effort is put into eeking out every ounce of capability per dollar. Even hosting on AWS/Google/Azure/etc is never going to beat a bespoke data center dedicated to one particular application.

Although they don't necessarily publish this information, at least a data center can accurately measure its energy usage (which tends to dwarf hardware costs...). Also newer hardware will always outperform old hardware per energy usage. For either aspect I can't say the same for the server in my basement ... It's 10 year-old hardware running on the same circuit as the beer fridge next to it. I have no idea how much electricity it uses to handle like 2 users. It's a glorified space heater.

It's all about trade-offs. Fediverse applications value open standardization, availability, and long-term resiliency over efficiency, performance, and short-term profits.

The Fediverse is great, but in the short/mid-term, efficiency and ecological impact aren't things i would expect it to excel at.

[-] F4stL4ne@programming.dev 0 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

There are tubes nonetheless, under the Atlantic ocean for instance.... But I agree.

The major economic impact of the digital is making new teminal. The second is the streaming. I can find the scientific research about that if you like.

With this in mind, you are telling me that a streaming software running with potential low tech hardware and using p2p (allowing for packet to NOT travel 3 times around the world before reaching destination) will not be better for the environment than a centralised video system running 4k formats and advertising everywhere?

Again, maybe I'm missing something here. And yes hardware running uses power, yes datacenter are more power efficient (I already talked about that in the thread).

[-] Sentau@lemmy.one 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

potential low tech hardware

Low tech ≠ efficient

I have an old laptop that is low tech and uses only 15 watts of power. Compared to that my laptop has a general power usage of 35 watts or more on heavy CPU intensive tasks. On face value it seems that the old machine is more power efficient but that is not the case. The amount computing power provided for that 15 watts used is very low and like 15 times lower than the computational grunt provided by the new machine which makes the new machine 5-6 times more efficient.

Edit - it would great if you can link the scientific papers you mentioned. I am by no means an expert and love to be proven wrong and learn something in the process

[-] F4stL4ne@programming.dev 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Here is the study : https://www.insee.fr/fr/statistiques/4238589?sommaire=4238635 It's in French, I didn't find something in English (maybe in the IPCC studies ). 47% of digital impact comes from users terminals (mostly from smartphone manufacturing).

Yes, but it doesn't mean low tech hardware should always be replace by new ones.

I honestly doesn't understand why everybody here seems to think efficiency=ecology. Mass manufacturing new hardware have a big ecological impact. As I said before things aren't magically replaced by better ones. Old unused tech ends up burning in pile in Africa or Asia.

What's the point of using things like YouTube that keeps promoting 4k (needs for better screen), instant access, streaming over download, advertising, things that have a judge ecological impact.

[-] ExFed@vlemmy.net 2 points 1 year ago

That is a very fair point. There are ecological costs to electronics manufacturing and waste that are not as well understood as lifecycle energy consumption. It is much more complex and appears much harder to solve than energy consumption ... so maybe that's why.

[-] Sentau@lemmy.one 2 points 1 year ago

I understand your points about the ecological impacts of creating and buying new technological devices. But youtube is not the sole driver in making people new devices. People buying new stuff is the goal of the entire tech industry. I dont see how switching to peertube or other FOSS alternatives will lead to an reduction in ecological impact. Hardware companies will still be making new phones, laptops, etc and people will still be buying these new devices.

Dont get me wrong, i would love for FOSS alternatives to youtube becoming mainstream but the ecological impact argument does not seem to hold at least not in my eyes.

The paper was an interesting read though. Thank you. I will try to hold on to devices for longer from now on (hopefully as long as possible)

[-] F4stL4ne@programming.dev 1 points 1 year ago

Google loves making new hardware/tech, but yeah they're not the only one to blame on this...

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this post was submitted on 21 Jun 2023
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