105

It's like China is just that one country (aside from the Khmer Rouge) that every ML (aside from Dengists like us) agrees to hate on.

Fellow Traveler and leftypol uploaded videos criticizing them, the Shining Path hung up literal dogs to protest them, Maoists go all insane saying that it's some red fash social-imperialist nation because (insert nato propaganda here). And Hoxhaists claim that China was never socialist and that the only socialist nation ever was USSR before Khrushchev and almighty holy Albania.

What is it that makes China so controversial even among MLs? I get that it's not perfect and every AES state has their Ls, but jesus.

you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[-] Imnecomrade@lemmygrad.ml 25 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

Propaganda is helluva drug. I believe there's so many layers of brainwash to clean off before most people see the cracks behind CIA lies of China. Though I think people can skip this process of unlearning if they visited China, watch videos of people having a good time in China (and what an absolutely beautiful, majestic country it is, looking like something from a science fiction/fantasy with so many wholesome and wonderful people), or read a non-Western book about China. When I began reading Socialist Reconstruction, my wife was skeptical of how China was being portrayed very positively, but I was slightly more willing to accept the book as being truthful and not "overly-biased" (not that I care about bias, as long as the message is honest). Only recently after, my wife and I began freeing our Western conditioned minds.

I believe people like Fellow Traveler and such should know better by now. Maybe they are being used as controlled opposition, idk.

[-] QueerCommie@lemmygrad.ml 16 points 8 months ago

I definitely agree it would help if these people would visit and see for themselves. However, I think the propaganda point is more complicated than you portray. Many people are convinced US enemies are bad, not because primarily because they are tricked, but because it makes them feel better. They can feel better about their own circumstances in the west if they can say "at least I'm not in (insert enemy country)." This works in a peculiar way on the western left where it may work for them to think "It's not our fault that we aren't anywhere near socialism. It's all China/Deng's fault for betraying the revolution and bringing new life to capitalism. Now all the real socialism is on it's back foot." Those that aren't total doomers from that thinking may add "maybe we could have an international revolution liberating us and the Chinese people from their chains." This all ties in with the martyr fetish thing.

Another dynamic is contrarianism. Communists don't want to believe the CIA/news/etc. The news says China's an authoritarian socialist hellscape. The western Communist is confused. Are they good but not socialist? Are they still authoritarian but not socialist? Then they think of the other things mentioned in this thread or remember Lenin's approach to the international situation around WWI and conclude China's a rival imperialist. "China's obviously doing capitalism so well that they are beating the old imperialists. They claim it's socialist and uphold Mao in words because people know socialism is good." This totally makes sense if you don't engage in Chinese theory. It also makes sense when some of China's most ardent English language supporters are clear revisionists. I'm speaking of the "Patriotic Socialists" and those like Micheal Hudson.

this post was submitted on 24 Feb 2024
105 points (100.0% liked)

Communism

9342 readers
34 users here now

Discussion Community for fellow Marxist-Leninists and other Marxists.

Rules for /c/communism

Rules that visitors must follow to participate. May be used as reasons to report or ban.

  1. No non-marxists

This subreddit is here to facilitate discussion between marxists.

There are other communities aimed at helping along new communists. This community isn't here to convert naysayers to marxism.

If you are a member of the police, armed forces, or any other part of the repressive state apparatus of capitalist nations, you will be banned.

  1. No oppressive language

Do not attempt to justify your use of oppressive language.

Doing this will almost assuredly result in a ban. Accept the criticism in a principled manner, edit your post or comment accordingly, and move on, learning from your mistake.

We believe that speech, like everything else, has a class character, and that some speech can be oppressive. This is why speech that is patriarchal, white supremacist, cissupremacist, homophobic, ableist, or otherwise oppressive is banned.

TERF is not a slur.

  1. No low quality or off-topic posts

Posts that are low-effort or otherwise irrelevant will be removed.

This is not a place to engage in meta-drama or discuss random reactionaries on lemmy or anywhere else.

This includes memes and circlejerking.

This includes most images, such as random books or memorabilia you found.

We ask that amerikan posters refrain from posting about US bourgeois politics. The rest of the world really doesn’t care that much.

  1. No basic questions about marxism

Posts asking entry-level questions will be removed.

Questions like “What is Maoism?” or “Why do Stalinists believe what they do?” will be removed, as they are not the focus on this forum.

  1. No sectarianism

Marxists of all tendencies are welcome here.

Refrain from sectarianism, defined here as unprincipled criticism. Posts trash-talking a certain tendency or marxist figure will be removed. Circlejerking, throwing insults around, and other pettiness is unacceptable.

If criticisms must be made, make them in a principled manner, applying Marxist analysis.

The goal of this subreddit is the accretion of theory and knowledge and the promotion of quality discussion and criticism.

Check out ProleWiki for a communist wikipedia.

Communism study guide

bottombanner

founded 5 years ago
MODERATORS