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I can't really think of a reason for that as Reddit is hated somewhat equally by "both" sides of the spectrum. It's just something I find interesting.

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[-] Aceticon@lemmy.world 0 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Well, there's a self-proclaimed Left which, though probably having started out with good intentions, is all about "lets classify people on visible things they were born with and then presume things about them purelly on their "classification" and treat them differently".

If this sounds strangelly like the far-right thinking that's because it is kinda derivative: the same architecture of deeming individuals as worthy/unworthy likely-good/likely-bad because they were born with certain characteristics as the far-right is used, and then the categories are swapped and the whole thing is called "being progressive" as if it was only unfair to judge and treat people because of their genetic makeup if done in one direction but not in a different one.

Then there is the tankie Left, which also started with good intentions but seem to have confuse the recipe-book of slogans and the Party über alles discipline invented in the late 19th century and early 20th century by middle class intellectuals to inspired the near-illiterate masses of the time to create an utopian leftwing world (which didn't work) with the actual thinking Principles and Intentions from which the rules were made. Because these people follow the recipes without examining the against the principles and ideals and in contexts which are very different of the ones for which those rules were created, you went up with ridiculous ideas directly opposed to "the greatest good for the greatest number" principle like supporting Putin's invasion.

The followers of such "Lefts" hate it when their faith-like beliefs are examined against the actual Principles of Equality and "the greatest good for the greatest numbers" and found often to be directly opposing them, just like when you grab some religious book or other and point out the inconsistencies in it: there is no greater hate than that of the faithfull who sees the basis of their Identity be examined under the cruel light of logic and found to be mainly bollocks.

Or in other words, I think the Left here is a lot more the product of thinking things through and concluding that it would be a lot better to live in a World with less poverty, more equality and were a few did not amass more power than whole countries thanks to their wealth, and continuing to actually continue to think things through when face with slogans from the tribalist flag waving slogan parroting and social-circle-jerk groups which call themselves "Left" and which are the leftovers from Marxism in the XXI Century and the Neoliberal-inspired "in the greed is good context, lets pursue personal-upside maximization as an 'Identity' group instead of individually so that we can claim we're lefties".

PS: If it sounds I'm raging against the Left here, that just because I find the pettyness and self-serving sociopathy of the modern Right to be self-evident. I actually don't think you can be a true leftwinger genuinelly fighting for the greater good if you just blindly follow slogans and tribes. Funilly enough it also means I can actually respect a genuine old-style conservative, even whilst wholly disagreeing with him or her.

[-] aspensmonster@lemmygrad.ml 1 points 1 year ago

Then there is the tankie Left, which also started with good intentions but seem to have confuse the recipe-book of slogans and the Party über alles discipline invented in the late 19th century and early 20th century by middle class intellectuals to inspired the near-illiterate masses of the time to create an utopian leftwing world (which didn’t work) with the actual thinking Principles and Intentions from which the rules were made.

The "tankies" are absolutely not utopian. There was a great big schism about this very question more than a century ago, with Marxists roundly rejecting the utopianism of the libertarian socialists (Anarchists). Socialism: Utopian and Scientific by Engels is a good starting point.

[-] Aceticon@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago

Look, as I said in another post I am a member of a leftwing party in my homecountry, and that party has two big strains inside, which are pretty much the older generation (people in their late 60s+) most of which tend to be old style socialist/communist (though not fans of the local Communist Party, who they see as self-serving and with a deep authoritarian strain) and a newer generation in their 30s, sons and daughters of the high middle class, who don't really have a concrete ideology and make the politics up as they go, with not exactly great competence.

About a decade ago the old generation very purposefully made way for the new one, hence why that 2nd strain is so "narrow in their age range and social origins" (and quite blind to their own ignorance about how the other 95% or so of the population trully live and think).

Anyways, all of this to say that when the Russian Invasion of Ukraine started, I actually argued with one of those old guys, whose kneejerk reaction was to defend Russia (because in his worldview "Russia good, US bad"), and I convinced him to change his mind by pointing out that there was but one aggressor and one victim in this War and how it was entirelly consistent to be against the actions of Russia here as it was to be against the actions of the US in the second Iraq War as both were agressors killing people who did no harm to them, and further it was entirelly consistent with in life in general side with the victims against the aggressors.

If I understand the definition correctly, a "tankie" is what this guy was in his kneejerk pro-Russia reaction, yet I did manage to convince him to change his mind and did so with an entirelly humanist argument of siding with the victims, so I would say that his heart was in the right place.

More in general, my judgement of the old-school lefties I've been in contact with mainly through being in this party is that their intentions are good but they're often stuck in a slogan-heavy view of things which is severely outdated and rigid and which they learned in their early adulthood, often resulting in things like this kind of kneejerk defense of present day Russia because of what a very different Russia meant to them half a century ago, but as I described, it's still possible for their view to change when somebody gently and with some good examples points out that they're "sidding with the guys harming others" in their unthinking "taking a side" reaction.

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this post was submitted on 23 Jul 2023
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