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[-] jadero@programming.dev 17 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

There are a few things I've taken from that article on first reading:

  1. I was substantially correct in my understanding of how multidimensional matrices and neural networks are used. While unsurprising given the amount of reading I've done over the last several decades on various approaches to AI, it's still gratifying to feel that I actually learned something from all that reading.
  2. I saw nothing in there to argue against my thesis that things like ChatGPT may be doing for intelligence what evolutionary biology has done to creationism. In the case of evolution, it has forced creationists to fall back on a "God of the Gaps" whose gaps grow ever smaller. ChatGPT et al have me thinking that any attribution of mind or intelligence to "mystery" or the supernatural or whatever hand waving is en vogue is or will be consigned to ever smaller gaps. That is, it is incorrect to claim that intelligence, human or otherwise, is currently and will forever remain unexplainable.
  3. The fact that we cannot easily work out exactly how a particular input was transformed to a particular output strikes me as a "fake problem." That is, given the scale of operations, this difficulty of following a single throughline is no different from many other processes we have developed. Who can say which molecules go where in an oil refinery? We have only a process that is shown useful in the lab then scaled to beyond comprehension in industry. Except that it's not actually beyond comprehension, because everything we need to know is described by the process, validated at small scales, and producing statistically similar useful results at large scales. Asking questions about individual molecules is asking the wrong questions. So it is with LLM and transformers: the "how it works" is in being able to describe and validate the process, not in being able to track and understand individual changes between input and output at scale.
  4. Although not explicitly addressed, the "hallucinatory" results we occasionally see may have more in common with the ordinary cognitive failures we are all subject to than anything that can be labelled as broken. Each of us has in our backgrounds something that got misclassified in ways that, when combined with the way we process information, lead to wild conclusions. That is why we have learned to compare and contrast our results with the results of others and have even formalized that activity in science. So it may be necessary to apply that activity (compare and contrast) with other systems, including the ones built in to our brains.

Anyway some pseudorandom babbling that I hope is at least as useful as a hallucinating AI.

[-] Sigmatics@lemmy.ca 11 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

I disagree that 3 is not a problem.

As opposed to industrial processes that you compared it to, we cannot predict the output of a LLM with any kind of certainty. This can and will be problematic, as our economy is built around predictable processes.

[-] jadero@programming.dev 2 points 1 year ago

That is true, but perhaps inappropriate in this case. Humans are not predictable, nor is weather, the actual outcomes of policy decisions, and any number of things that are critical to a functioning society. We mostly cope with most issues by creating systems that are somewhat resilient, take into account the lack of perfection, and by making adjustments over time to tweak the results.

I think perhaps a better analogy than the oil refinery might be economic or social policy. We have to always be fiddling with inputs and processes to get the results we desire. We never have perfectly predictable outcomes, yet somehow mostly manage to get things approximately correct. This doesn't even ignore the issue that we can't seem to really agree on what "correct" is as we seem to be in general agreement that 1920 was better than 1820 and that 2020 was better than 1920.

If we want AI to be the backbone of industry, then the current state of the art probably isn't suitable and the LLM/transformer systems may never be. But if we want other ways to browse a problem space for potential solutions, then maybe they fit the bill.

I don't know and I suspect we're still a decade away from really being able to tell whether these things are net positive or not. Just one more thing that we have difficulty predicting, so we have to be sure to hedge our bets.

(And I apologize if it seems I've just moved the goal posts. I probably did, but I'm not really sure that I or anyone else really knows enough at this point to really lock them in place.)

[-] Juno@beehaw.org 2 points 1 year ago

Maybe thinking about it in terms of a simple video game that's complex enough to have floating point math involved. The significand would be like the skeletons of the sentences with article words (the, a, an) and the sentence structure as a base.

There's a good pac man analogy in there some where...

[-] jadero@programming.dev 1 points 1 year ago

I don't really follow you. I'm not able to make the leap from the methods of floating point math to construction of sentences. There is a sense in which I understand what you've written and another sense in which I feel like there was one more step on the staircase than I realized :)

[-] Juno@beehaw.org 2 points 1 year ago

It's like a blank space needs filled

The static point would be the sentence "Theres a ____ in the house" And from there it's like a coin sorting machine filter filter filter okay noun filter filter filter cat the user doesn't want a cat filter filter filter dog

Where the filtering = other similar static points or it's looking for other sentences arranged like that with those words in that context.

That's how it mistakes cat for dog It's not thinking "I know what a cat is, dogs are like that" It's just looking for word usage frequency in that specific or similar contexts and replacing it with a frequently used word. That's how you end up getting a wrong answer "what's more like a cat? Dog or kitten? Reply:Dog."

Or if it screws up some math it's to do with it not actually doing any math, instead it's looking for answer frequency and enough people wrote 2+2=5

[-] jadero@programming.dev 1 points 1 year ago

Okay, now I get it. That is pretty close to how I imagine it, too. That is part of why I think these LLMs may give insight into cognition more generally.

I had never thought of that while reading books and articles that describe and investigate the errors we make, especially when there is some kind of brain damage. But I feel like I've seen all these errors described in humans by Oliver Sacks et al.

[-] Juno@beehaw.org 2 points 1 year ago

Oh also, regarding compartmentalized language models in the brain, profanity and swearing is stored in muscle memory, not the front lobe. That's why if u lose the power of speech due to stroke, you'd still be able to shout profanity of some kind.

[-] jadero@programming.dev 1 points 1 year ago

Hah! Yes, I was aware of that. I only hope that should I be so afflicted that that still applies when using some of those words in the gloriously flexible ways they are capable of. :)

[-] Juno@beehaw.org 2 points 1 year ago

I'm interested in this primarily as an English teacher. I need to be able to spot the linguistic tics and errors and recognize where it likely came from.

Right now, the best we have is like the opening scenes from Bladerunner.

Holden: One-one-eight-seven at Unterwasser. Leon: That's the hotel. Holden: What? Leon: Where I live. Holden: Nice place? Leon: Yeah, sure I guess-- that part of the test? Holden: No, just warming you up, that's all. Leon: Oh. It's not fancy or anything. Holden: You're in a desert, walking along in the sand when all of the sudden- Leon: Is this the test now? Holden: Yes. You're in a desert walking along in the sand when all of the sudden you look down- Leon: What one? Holden: What? Leon: What desert? Holden: It doesn't make any difference what desert, it's completely hypothetical. Leon: But how come I'd be there? Holden: Maybe you're fed up, maybe you want to be by yourself, who knows? You look down and you see a tortoise, Leon, it's crawling towards you- Leon: Tortoise, what's that? Holden: Know what a turtle is? Leon: Of course. Holden: Same thing. Leon: I've never seen a turtle -- But I understand what you mean. Holden: You reach down, you flip the tortoise over on its back Leon. Leon: Do you make up these questions, Mr. Holden, or do they write them down for you? Holden: The tortoise lays on its back, its belly baking in the hot sun beating its legs trying to turn itself over but it can't, not without your help, but you're not helping. Leon: What do you mean I'm not helping? Holden: I mean, you're not helping. Why is that Leon? -- They're just questions, Leon. In answer to your query, they're written down for me. It's a test, designed to provoke an emotional response. -- Shall we continue?

Except I can't ask the paper on Maya Angelou any questions. Short of interrogating each student when they turn something in, it's been a real struggle in the last few months to spot work that was not actually done by my students but was instead written by chat gpt.

How to proceed now that they all interact with TikTok's chatbot, where not just the tech savvy kids will try this, idk.

But my first super fake was a well written paper about the personal growth of a girl named Fredericka who described feeling triumphant having just got her masters degree and overcoming adversity since she grew up as a young black boy in the south. "Hmmmm," I thought. "Something tells me You didn't write this."

[-] jadero@programming.dev 1 points 1 year ago

I'm interested in this primarily as an English teacher. I need to be able to spot the linguistic tics and errors and recognize where it likely came from.

That might well turn out to be the Red Queen's Race. It's only a guess, but I suspect that competitive models, the advances resulting from competition, and the advances and experimentation associated with catching and correcting mistakes will mean that you'll generally be playing catch up.

Frankly, I don't even have anything more useful to offer than the unrealistic suggestion that all such work be performed in class using locked down word processing appliances or in longhand. It may be that the days of assigning unsupervised schoolwork are over.

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this post was submitted on 30 Jul 2023
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