When i churn/mix multiple account's XMR and then combine the outputs into a single account, i have compromised my anonymization effort? (lemmings.world)

submitted 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) by hetzlemmingsworld@lemmings.world to c/monero@monero.town

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Hello,

if I am using several Monero receiving accounts (like “cash”, “work”, “trading”, “mining”, “donations”) and for each of the account i have secondary account into which i repeatedly sweep my receiving account's balance in order to churn/mix my XMR (e.g. cash -> cash2nd).

What if:

A) I "combine" the XMR again in the second "level" of my XMR accounts (account called common3rd):

cash     -> cash2nd    -> common3rd
work     -> work2nd    -> common3rd
trading  -> trading2nd -> common3rd -> 3rd party (big payment which would combine most/all outputs)

B) I split each churning/mixing transaction into several a small outputs:

cash -> output 1 - cash2nd
     -> output 2 - work2nd
     -> output 3 - trading2nd
and then spend from all these 2nd accounts in one big transaction

Is better (anonymity-wise) A or B and why or you suggest better direction?

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[-] azalty@jlai.lu 0 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

The more outputs you have/use, to more traceable you get. The more churning you do, the less traceable you become

I would advise to mix your outputs at different moments rather than all at once in a final big transaction, as those kind of transactions really stand out. If you’ve made enough churning it shouldn’t be a concern anyways but 🤷

On the other hand, mixing outputs early will also make you more traceable (but will lower the cost of churning, as churning many times many individual outputs is expensive), so I’m not sure it’s the best option either

[-] hetzlemmingsworld@lemmings.world 2 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

The more outputs you have/use, to more traceable you get

Thanks for your input. ChatGPT says "using more outputs in your transactions can potentially lead to unintentional traceability if those outputs are later used in a larger transaction. This is why it is important to carefully plan and manage how you use outputs in your transactions to maximize privacy." So it confirms what you have said.

So I guess that I should avoid manually adding multiple outputs in aim to decrease chance of a tracking, I am saying that since i am usually getting small transactions and spending in big ones (which would "consolidate" small outputs and more less invalidate my anonymization effort). So I guess i will do just churning with single output to my secondary wallet and in case i want to "join" funds from "home" and "work" accounts, I can do:

3rd party -> work -> work2nd

KYC'ed 3rd party -> home -> home2nd -> home3rd -> work2nd

and then spend big transaction from work2nd (or maybe i can skip the step "home3rd -> work2nd" and source the big transaction from various accounts, yet someone claimed last year "It seems that at the present moment, neither the Monero GUI/RPC/CLI wallets implement the ability to transfer from multiple addresses." and I can confirm I am unable to find it in Monero GUI [btw. it is very slow to sync (even tens of minutes if not ran for 2 weeks+), i am NOT running node and i am using Tor proxy inside it]. Feedback to what I have written is much appreciated.

[-] azalty@jlai.lu 1 points 5 months ago

Seems good!

About the Monero software, try using Feather Wallet. It gives you more infos about your outputs (you can select each one individually), handles everything better, and usually syncs faster (with remote nodes). I advise using Tor nodes (Tor support built-in) or using a VPN

Use a trusted remote node, as they’re currently pretty much able to track which outputs are used as decoys, as your client asks for them

Locally syncing by downloading the blockchain is still the best way as you will leak less things, but is super slow. Pick your poison (or run your own remote node!)