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Climate change deniers (sh.itjust.works)
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[-] merc@sh.itjust.works 67 points 2 months ago

This is such a straw-man argument. I'm highly in favor of renewables, but I'm not blind to what other people think.

Say you're someone who legitimately doesn't believe that climate change is happening, or at least that if it's happening it's not being caused by humanity. (People who believe those things are definitely out there.) In that case, what's the worst thing that can happen?

  • Having cheaper energy from renewable sources?

Obviously this isn't something that people who think climate change is a hoax are concerned about. They're worried that renewable sources will be more expensive and less reliable.

  • Never running out of oil?

People who don't believe in climate change also don't think we're anywhere close to running out of oil. In fact, they think it's the same people pushing the "climate change hoax" that are pushing the idea that the planet is running low on oil. "Peak oil" has been predicted for decades, and they just keep finding more and more oil.

  • Being independent from unstable countries with bad human rights records?

The US is the #1 global oil producer. Canada is 4th on the list. Brazil is 8th. Mexico is 11th. Norway is 13th. With Natural Gas it's similar, US is #1, Canada is #4, Australia is #7, Norway is #9. Aside from the obvious jokes about the US being an unstable country with a bad human rights record, this concern is overblown. If OPEC limits production the prices will go up, but that means more profit will flow to the US. Assuming this is meant for a US audience, that's obviously a good thing for their economy. If it's meant for say the UK, there's going to be more dependence on fossil fuels from Russia, but it isn't like all fossil fuels come from enemies of the UK.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_oil_production
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_natural_gas_production

  • Having cleaner air?

A lot of the people who are pro-fossil fuels are older. They've seen the air quality go up consistently over their lives. They don't think of the current world as a hellscape with dirty air, they see it as the cleanest air they've ever had. The problem is that the pollutant that most people are worried about now is invisible and... unsmellable? Unlike the soot and smog that makes pollution so obvious.

  • Investing in local and domestic research, education and fabrication

The US is the country that produces the most oil and the most natural gas, it also makes the most gasoline / petrol by far. Domestic research, education and fabrication is a US thing when it comes to oil and gasoline. By contrast, most solar panel components are produced in China. 96.8% of photovoltaic wafers are made in China. Wind Turbines are also largely made in China.

Sure, theoretically investment could mean that generation is shifted away from China and to manufacturers in the west. But, when was the last time the west ramped up manufacturing to compete with China in anything?

--

The reason that so many people are opposed to change are:

  • They've been convinced that climate change is a hoax. Nobody realistically knows how to fix people's beliefs about this. And, it's unlikely to change unless there's a radical change in media company ownership and bias, which means it's probably going to take decades to fix. It's more likely that the climate change deniers will die off of old age, than they're going to change their beliefs.
  • They believe the current system works, so why change it? This is key. Even if they believed that climate change is real, it's really hard to convince someone to change a system that works.
  • They believe (probably correctly) that the current system is good for their economy. Of course, most of the profits are flowing to the rich, and not being shared with the workers. However, the current system does employ a lot of workers.
  • They think that renewable systems only work when it's sunny or when it's windy. There's a bit of truth to that, and for continent-wide purely renewable grid, you'd need to figure out some way of storing energy for when conditions aren't right for renewables. But, the problem is overblown because those solutions are coming online as fast as the grid is being updated.
[-] Johnnydisco@lemmy.world 5 points 2 months ago

I just learned so much in such a short amount of time. Thanks for taking the time to drop some knowledge.

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this post was submitted on 18 Aug 2024
1522 points (98.5% liked)

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