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(lemmy.world)
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this post was submitted on 18 Sep 2024
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They what?!
Israel detonated a whole bunch of pagers in Lebanon. It's cartoonishly evil, and injured* a shit load of civilians.
Civilians? A shit load? Except that little girl, no mainstream media mentioned any other civilian
It was a surgical level sabotage with almost zero collateral damage
... You are aware of what happens when you explode bombs in civilian heavy areas. You are also aware that is a war crime right?
also Lebinon is not at war so none of there citizens are valid targets
Well if we re playing "words & technicality" here, so yeah i guess that would be a "war crime", if Israel did it, but again technically who knows? Maybe Allah felt a lil bloody today, and that's his punishment
If we abandon "technicality", then while not "technically " at war, Lebanon keeps firing missiles at Israel on regular basis, so that kinda justifies the killing of the supposed "civilians".
Just ask: If Hezbollah did it to Israelis, what would you call it?
A Masterclass in warfare.
And you're commenting in bad faith at a beginner level.
Can't win this one
the diffrence being that Missles are valid military tactics esepcialy when sent to military targets, and as far as I am aware that is what Hezbula is doing, as for palistine, as an opressed group fighting for freedom the UN has a seperate set of rules of war they are permitted to engage in, does that make it asymetical, yes but that is how the internaltional law is written (and you dont need to agree with me editorializing of palistine for the seperate rules of war that they use kick in)
Isreal sent in bombs with no way of discriminating civilian and military targets, and knew said individuals would bring it into civlilan centers, the fact they did that in a way where it entered civilian centers, with no military objective is also a war crime.
we also can be pretty sure that this shipment was not all going to Hezbula and it can be reasonably assumed others in lebenon where effected, though I will admit this part is me thinking outloud with no evidence to back it up yet
What are you saying? Lol i can't argue with someone who s trying to gaslight me into thinking this never happened https://edition.cnn.com/2024/07/27/middleeast/lebanon-israel-golan-strikes-intl-latam/ Lebanon literally fires indiscriminately, because they don't have anything else to shoot with.
Israel surgically targeted members of Hezbollah, in this case (i am not arguing about gaza or anything else). This a masterclass of warfare. Unlike their usual strike in the middle of refugee camps lol
If Hezbollah did exactly this to Israel, you wouldn't be saying "surgically targeted" or "a masterclass in warfare"
This is terrorism. Lebanese civilians are people like anyone else, including you
I would say exactly what i said here : masterclass in enemy elimination: don't worry, i am pretty consistent in my logic, I am not complaining when they target Israeli soldiers on daily basis, that's fair game
Those are not civilians, that's where you banging this argument against my head, but that won't make it : those are people who openly says they have a goal to kill Israeli, and they are trying to do so, daily. Those are soldiers, however they wish to call themselves
Your cited arguments might have a legal ground, but they have no moral basis. Those are soldiers. Fair game.
If you read the report from CNN Hezbulah takes credit for attacks in the area, however does not take credit for the one the article is talking about.
I do not see the reasoning for a military group to take credit for attacks in an area but not this one if it was one they launced. I will be honest my analisis beyond here would be tanted by my own personal bias however.
We are also talking about civilians living in occupied territory that even the UN has said is illegal and ought to be returned, agian I would like to refer you to the international law that allowes for asymetiric warfare in causes of national liberation.
You don't see why they didn't claim a strike that killed kids in football field? I am dropping the mic here, have a nice day
Your argument equates to "Hezbollah targets civilians so Israel can too". Either you severely lack common sense or in reality you have a bias towards other middle eastern countries and you think they are basically all terrorists and everyone in Lebanon is exalted about the Hezbollah governance.
Nope, i stated many times that those are not civilians.
two kids and medical workers?
The others, like, 3000 of them
But yes I did mention the unfortunate kid playing with father's device
Not one kid, atleast two kids and medical workers.
"Tuesday’s attacks, which targeted pagers used by members of Hezbollah and have been attributed to Israel, left at least 2,800 injured and 12 dead, including two children and a healthcare worker."
"At least one explosion was close to a funeral being held in Beirut for some of the victims of Tuesday's attack, creating panic among those near the procession."
"People in Lebanon are terrified of everyday communication devices following two days of deadly pager and walkie-talkie blasts, said Nabih Bulos, Middle East bureau chief of the Los Angeles Times."
"Two beeps and a pause was the only warning Yusuf got. He turned around to face the noise, thinking it was one of his medical instruments, but instead was met with an explosion, throwing shrapnel into his leg. His patient fared much worse."
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/sep/18/lebanon-beirut-medics-civilians-horrified-pager-attacks
https://edition.cnn.com/world/live-news/lebanon-pagers-explode-hezbollah-israel-09-18-24-intl-hnk/index.html
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cz04m913m49o
It also had the exact same effect that a terrorist organization wishes to instill in a populace, terrorised to go out in public.
And if you think all of those 3000 injured people are militant members of Hezbollah:
1- it is just wishful thinking to verify your own world view
2- you will be very disappointed in the next couple weeks (or just again disregard any contrary evidence so as to keep living in your simple world)
All in all it is absolutely clear that multiple civilians including two kids have died, this was an attack with very high risk of civilian casualties and it terrorised/traumatized the civilian populace of Lebanon. This is not the clean surgical operation that you dream it to be, this is just an operation that demonstrates alot of power, reach and blatant disregard for civilian life. You are only drooling over the first two and pretending like the third does not exist (I dont know why because so far my impression of you is that you simply wouldnt care).
You know nothing about my world, don't try to infer my life out of a dozen Internet posts
This is a greatly successful operation with minimal number of civilian casualties. Usually, civilians casualties are much higher, and are never zero. I am not saying i don't give a damn about civilians : i am saying there are 2 countries waging (almost) a war on each other, and this operation is a great (tactical?) success
yea well you are going out of your way to disregard two dead children and health care workers as "minimal causalties" not to mention your biased supposition that 3000 injured are all Hezbollah militants. You don't leave room for much else.
"This is a greatly successful operation with minimal number of civilian casualties. Usually, civilians casualties are much higher, and are never zero."
And again your logic equates to "there are operations with much more civilian casualties so operations with few civilian casualties are ok"
the only success of this operation is just Israel demonstrating the extent of its reach. We dont even know who/how many the Hezbullah members are among the 3000 injured and 20 dead. Current knowledge states among the 20 dead are 2 children and 4 health care workers:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cx2kn10xxldo
I am willing to bet more than half of those injured were not militant members or even members of Hezbollah. This is the only logical outcome of detonation of bombs in civilian areas. Trying to claim that all of those 3000 people are militant members of Hezbollah when these bombs exploded in hospitals, groceries, funerals and family homes is simply delirious.
State of Israel simply does not care about civilian casualties. For them ten Lebanon civilians and one valid target dead is still a success. I don't really understand why you are trying to whitewash this operation more than even the state of Israel does. This is simply drooling over power and influence.
Imagine the outrage if the sides were reversed. 3000 Israeli injured and 20 Israeli dead on a Lebanese attack.
yes.
Will see how it goes? This is your speculation. We both have the same amount of information
Definitely doesn't care much
I returning your argument to you: you can't distinguish a successful operation from a flop, because you are drooling too much for the other side
now you are just being cheap
Children? Seriously?
I don't know who you are talking to? I am speaking about Hezbollah operatives using pagers. I was talking about them this whole fucking thread, please do the effort to read at least before throwing "think of the children!!11"
If we follow your line of argument, October 7th was not a terrorist attack but only a war action and Hamas is only a contender in that war, not a terrorist group. Do you agree with that?