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submitted 3 weeks ago by db0@lemmy.dbzer0.com to c/leftymemes@lemmy.dbzer0.com

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[-] disguy_ovahea@lemmy.world 65 points 3 weeks ago

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[-] expr@programming.dev 38 points 3 weeks ago

Exactly, heavy taxation on the ultra wealthy and wealth caps are incredibly popular topics in liberal circles. I swear some people have never actually talked to a liberal and just attack some strawman they've lumped in together with conservatives.

I'm leftist and anti-capitalist, but I also recognize that most liberals are people who want the same things leftists do, but simply haven't thought deeply enough about what the true root causes of society's issues are. It's an issue of tactics rather than a fundamental disconnect in core principles and values. Ultimately they want a more equitable, less stratified society where society helps and supports the disenfranchised. The same thing leftists want. They just don't understand that capitalism has to go in order to achieve it.

Liberals, unlike conservatives, are actually generally quite reasonable people since they aren't motivated by hatred. As leftists, we should be doing everything we can to educate them and bring them into the fold, rather than tearing them down.

[-] disguy_ovahea@lemmy.world 13 points 3 weeks ago

Well said. Education over isolation is the only way we’ll move forward.

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[-] njm1314@lemmy.world 14 points 3 weeks ago

Liberals are Centrist they've always been centrists for 400 years.

[-] DragonTypeWyvern@midwest.social 2 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago)

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[-] njm1314@lemmy.world 4 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago)

You're complaining about making the political axis reductive and yet your entire comment completely ignores the existence of actual French leftists during the revolution. The Liberals in France might have helped to begin the revolution, and they were certainly the ones that help to end the revolution, but they weren't the only members of the revolution. They helped to murder and destroy the French left During the Revolution and in the years that came after. Surely you aren't arguing that Babeuf was a liberal? But his mere existence shows the great flaw in your theory. The French liberals were to the right of him and a number of other French revolutionaries. So how could they be the extreme radicals you claim they were?

You can only say that Liberals are the left if you're looking at it solely from the perspective of extreme conservatives and regressives. Yes if that's the only way you view history is through their eyes then everything can look leftist. That does not mean it is though. The Liberals of the American and French Revolution were those that that wished for the culmination and empowerment the burgiose. The ascendancy of the capitalist class. Nobody who works for this ascendancy can be called leftist. You're basically making the Overton window argument. That because we are at a time of extreme right wing thought that centrism would have been only moderately right wing. We know that's not true. Just look at the Shakers in England during their Civil War. A people most would classify as a Proto communist movement.

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[-] kittenzrulz123@lemmy.blahaj.zone 8 points 3 weeks ago

Liberals absolutely arent centrists, Social Democrats are centrist. Liberals are right wing, fundamentally you cannot be a leftist while supporting a "free" capitalist economy and minimal government (thats what Liberalism is).

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[-] mumblerfish@lemmy.world 8 points 3 weeks ago

What you are saying fits the american "liberal" label. What you are describing I would call social democrat, not a liberal. People calling themselves liberal in europe are, examples from sweden: compares public insight into publicly funded privatly owned companies to soviet, are for privatization of welfare institutions, collaborates with the far right, calls rightwing newspapers communist, and are against free speech at universities.

To be fair though, the meme is probably targeting socdems anyway so I guess fair enough.

[-] LibertyLizard@slrpnk.net 2 points 3 weeks ago

Aren’t SocDems a type of liberal?

[-] DragonTypeWyvern@midwest.social 3 points 3 weeks ago

Yes. And so are non ancap libertarians.

It's a pretty broad label that covers basically everyone that believes in some form of democracy and capitalism. The combination of Americentrism and declining public education that created the "liberal is when Democrats" is... Annoying.

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[-] Dragonstaff@leminal.space 22 points 3 weeks ago

"Not like that! We meant we should debate whether trans people should exist or not! Redistributing wealth is just evil."

[-] Urist@lemmy.ml 4 points 3 weeks ago

"OK FINE! You can own the means of sexual reproduction if you stay the hell away from the means of production, ya pleb!"

[-] DragonTypeWyvern@midwest.social 2 points 3 weeks ago

"Actually, scratch that, we need more wage slaves to make line go up."

[-] Urist@lemmy.ml 12 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago)

The only wealth redistribution they allow is from the poor to the rich. Bonus points if they can:

Increase tax pressure on the poor.
Make it so the poor vote for tax cuts.
Hand out said tax cuts to the rich.
Profit from "donations".

The liberal play book is so dumb and yet so effective.

EDIT: To all those that got offended by the dunk on liberals, consider this: When did your liberal government in practice and in a meaningful capacity increase tax pressure on the rich and allocate the increased funds to the benefit of the poor? Also, if you are not for more equitable redistribution of wealth, what are you even doing in this community?

[-] Flocklesscrow@lemm.ee 16 points 3 weeks ago

You're forgetting the vehicle of modern plundering: the Corporation

[-] Urist@lemmy.ml 8 points 3 weeks ago

The corporation is the weapon the capitalist class uses to make liberal democracies into dictatorships of the bourgeoisie.

[-] jerkface@lemmy.ca 12 points 3 weeks ago

They don't only exploit human resources but also natural resources and communal resources.

[-] Urist@lemmy.ml 3 points 3 weeks ago

The extraction of surplus value is usually done with no regard for and to the direct detriment of the well-being of the foundation on which value is being created.

[-] Soulg@sh.itjust.works 9 points 3 weeks ago

You spelled conservative wrong buddy

[-] Urist@lemmy.ml 2 points 3 weeks ago

US liberals are conservatives where I am from.

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[-] anonymous111@lemmy.world 3 points 3 weeks ago

Hear me out, this isnt a flame.

The word liberal has lost some of its historic connotations.

I am a believer in Economic Liberalism, broadly defined as;

Economic liberals tend to oppose government intervention and protectionism in the market economy when it inhibits free trade and competition, but tend to support government intervention where it protects property rights, opens new markets or funds market growth, and resolves market failures.[2]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_liberalism

Genuine question: Which party do I vote for?

As I see it, none of them are championing economic liberalism.

Note: before someone replies with: what about climate change, inequality etc. These are market failures that Economic liberals believe should be fixed by government.

As I see it, liberal economics is politically dead.

[-] killingspark@feddit.org 9 points 3 weeks ago

Do you think the government should enforce some limits on wealth accumulation? Genuine question, because this doesn't appear on neither the pro nor con lists in that definition and I'd like to hear a take of a self described economic liberal on this

[-] anonymous111@lemmy.world 5 points 3 weeks ago

I don't think total accumulation of wealth would be a problem in itself IF it was taxed properly.

If I was in charge I'd do the following:

Simplify the tax code and remove exemptions.
Set a threshold for inheritance tax, say $5m, and tax anything above that at close to 100%.
Setup a department to review and adapt to tax avoidance strategies I.e. billionaires taking out loans to avoid paying themselves in dividends, which would have been taxed.
Make the tax code progressive e.g. you pay more tax the more you earn. Set this up for capital, income, pension etc. Tax it all at the same level.

I think this provides enough of an incentive to work hard but removes the inter generational plutocracy issues.

Equality of opportunity and all that.

P.S. In my opinion, the accountancy profession should not need to exist. Rules should be simple enough for an average person to follow.

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this post was submitted on 11 Oct 2024

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