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In the early 1960s, an influential but little-known (today) firearms designer by the name of Robert Hillberg came up with an idea for a cheap-but-effective armament for the masses. With encouragement from DARPA, the Winchester company took up manufacture and development of the design, under the name “Liberator”.

The guns were initially planned to be made almost entirely as magnesium castings, with steel liners in the barrels, with a total cost of about $20 per gun. They would use prepackaged 4-round ammunition packets as well, rather than standard individual shotgun shells. By the time production was actually begun, however, the design had been altered to a break-action system using regular shells – the prepackaged quad-cartridges proved too difficult to perfect. So the production Mark II guns used conventional shells with a break-open action.

As it turned out, casting the frames over the steel barrel inserts was a quite difficult process, and Winchester soon moved to a MkIII design which replace the barrel casting with 4 independent all-steel barrels fixed at the muzzles by a stamped plate. By this time, however, military interest in the guns had fallen away...

Ian's video: [16:42] https://youtu.be/PQK9JNsrq_8?si=

https://www.forgottenweapons.com/winchesters-liberator-shotguns-video/

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Starting in the 1930s, Germany had begun experimenting with night optics. One of the more well known examples of their work is the "Vampir" night optic for small arms.

The optic consisted of an infrared lamp and a near infrared intensification tube through which the spotlight's illumination, which is invisible to the naked eye, could be viewed.

The same concept was applied but upscaled to create the FG1250 which was used in conjunection with MG-42 machineguns mounted on vehicles.

With the aid of the massively sized, 200 watt IR lamp it was reported that gunners could see man sized targets at 400 yards at night.

Smallarmsreview article.

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The Katzbalger was the signature blade of the Landsknecht and used between the 16th and 17th century.

While the main weapon of a Landsknecht was either a pike, a two-handed sword or an arquebus almost all of them used the Katzbalger as a side-arm.

Consequently, this short sword was used as a last resort weapon in case the enemy got too close so that their superior main weapons became unusable.

As the Katzbalger only had a gradual taper and sometimes even a rounded tip it was generally used as a cutting weapon. Thrusts were only useable when fighting unarmored targets.

The broader blade may have been advantageous when blocking strikes from heavier weapons like a Zweihänder.

There are two different theories on the origin of the name Katzbalger.

The first one is that the sword usually wasn’t carried in a scabbard but was only attached to the soldier’s waist by a cat’s skin (The German word “Katze” means cat and “Balg” translates to the skin of an animal)

The second theory is that the sword’s name is derived from the German word “balgen” which describes an intense close-quarter battle. In this case a fight between “Katzen” (cats)

Don't normally post swords because I'm not a big sword guy but I found this and thought it was interesting. But sword nerds are welcome here. Also maybe someone needed this for DnD reasons.

For our non native English speaking members the title is word play. Pointless usually means something lacks purpose but here it refers to the lack of an point at the tip of the sword.

Read more: https://medievalswordsworld.com/what-is-a-katzbalger/

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submitted 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) by FireTower@lemmy.world to c/forgottenweapons@lemmy.world

The halls of the fort saw the French defending German assaults firing off machineguns, grenades, and flamethrowers. Ultimately the French were forced to surrender after men became so parched they began to try and lick condensation off the walls.

With the surprise capture of Fort Douaumont in February 1916, the French reinforced all the remaining forts around the city of Verdun, and would hold them all successfully for many months. In fact, the only other fort in the area to fall would be Fort Vaux, in June of 1916.

In the chaos of the early battle, orders had actually gone out to evacuate Vaux and destroy it, but these were countermanded, and the fort remained a major lynchpin of French defenses in the sector... demolition charges set in the fort’s main gun turret were detonated by a massive German shell, destroying the weapon.

In May, German advances seriously threatened the fort, and a new commander was assigned – Major Sylvain Eugene Raynal. Upon arrival, he found the fort in a terrible condition – heavily damaged by German bombardments and hugely overcrowded with as many as 500 soldiers, most of them wounded and sheltering in the fort (it had been designed to garrison 150 men). Shelling had broken through the fort’s walls in several places, and unbeknownst to Raynal or his men, the water cistern had been damaged and was nearly empty despite its gauge reading substantial levels of water.

The climactic German assault began on June 1st 1916, and by the end of the day only 71 French soldiers remained in unwounded inside. On June 2nd, the cistern damage was discovered – at that point it held just 8 gallons of putrid dregs. Intense fighting would continue for nearly another week, without any relief forces or supplies able to reach the fort. On the 5th, a bit of water was collected from rain, but not much. A relief force attempted to reinforce the fort, but was virtually obliterated, with only 37 men reaching its walls.

The Germans would storm the fort on June 5th, and the most horrific of combat would rage for two days inside its tunnels and galleries. Raynal ordered barricades erected inside the fort, and the French forces fought from one to the next, with only a few dozen men remaining. The battle would include machine gun and hand grenades in these tight passageways, and eventually a German attempt to burn out the defenders with flamethrowers.

Finally on the morning of June 7th, the combination of casualties and a complete lack of water meant the end of the resistance. Raynal and his surviving men surrendered, and Germans soldiers finally occupied the fort they had spent months attempting to conquer. In recognition of his valiant defense, Raynal’s sword was returned to him by German Crown Prince Wilhelm.

Video: [10:53] https://youtu.be/o9Gc4D4gV10?si=

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This holster design was probably intended to be clipped onto a belt and have the gun be capable being drawn and fired from it. As the ejection port and trigger are still accessible.

The Type 64 is a dedicated suppressed pistol first introduced in 1965 and used in the Vietnam War. It uses a rimless version of the .32 ACP cartridge (7.65x17mm) in a 9-round Makarov like magazine. Despite outward similarity to the Makarov (especially the grip), the design is wholly unique internally. It uses basically a miniaturized AK bolt to allow the shooter to select between blowback semiauto functioning and single shot manual operation. The bolts rotating locking lugs prevent it from cycling when locked, in a very clever alternative use of the rotating bolt system. The suppressor has two chambers, using a combination of baffles and wire mesh as suppressor elements. In addition to standard ammunition, a plastic-sabot frangible load was also developed for use in situations like airline hijackings, and this loading is why some sources reference a maximum effective range of 15 meters.

For all its technical cleverness, the Type 64 is a rather heavy pistol, at 1.8kg / 4 pounds. It was replaced in 1967 by the substantially lighter and simpler Type 67, which weighed only 1.05kg / 2.3 pounds.

Ian's video: [17:46] https://youtu.be/wrLv_2Lf2rU?si=

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submitted 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) by setsneedtofeed@lemmy.world to c/forgottenweapons@lemmy.world

The MP 3008 was a last ditch weapon made by Germany in 1945. Also known as the Volksmaschinenpistole (peoples’ machinepistol), this 9x19mm gun was a copy of the British Mk. 2 Sten with a few minor alterations, the most noticeable being the magazine being rotated to the bottom of the gun compared to the Sten’s side magazine.

About 10,000 of these simple guns were built to arm the last ditch German defenses in WW2.

Wikipedia source

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The Mars pistol was a development of the turn of the century that would really be more at home in a Jules Verne novel... than in the real world. It was a massive handgun, ridiculously powerful, and marvelously complex... the first production prototype made by Webley in 1898 and production ceasing by 1907.

To put the gun’s physical size in context, consider the numerical data. The Mars is 25% heavier and 30% larger than the Colt 1911, and fires a very similar projectile at 50% higher velocity...

The Mars is one of the few long-recoil action firearms designed and built, and this choice of action contributes to its complexity. Hugh Gabbett-Fairfax, its inventor, was dedicated to the long-recoil system because it offered a high margin of safety for his very powerful cartridge. The idea of a long recoil system is that the bolt and barrel remain locked together as the whole system recoils backwards, and only unlock when fully rearward... The long locked time means that the bullet will have left the barrel and pressure will have dropped a great deal before the system opens, thus protecting the shooter.

It is worth comparing the Mars to the only reasonably successful long recoil pistol, which was the Frommer 1912. In the Frommer, bolt and barrel travel back together, and the bolt is held at it rearward position while the barrel returns forwards. The empty case is ejected as the barrel pulls off it, and when the barrel is fully home is trips a release to allow the bolt to come forward, stripping a new cartridge from the magazine as it does so. The Mars prototypes initially functioned this way (including the use of a rotating bolt, with 4 lugs in the case of the Mars), but had reliability problems. The travel distance of the moving parts... combined with the significant recoil of firing tended to bounce things around and led to feeding failures. The solution was twofold. First, the normal magazine was replaced by a cartridge elevator which would pull a round backwards out of the magazine during recoil and then lift is up into the path of the bolt. Secondly, the automatic bolt release was replaced by a mechanism which held the bolt open until the shooter released the trigger.

So,if one was to press the trigger and hold it back, the Mars would fire and lock open with a new cartridge lifted and ready for chambering, but the bolt would not be released to slam forward and lock until the trigger was released. This led to one of the perennial complaints about the gun in military trials; it had a very heavy trigger pull. In addition, this mechanism was spring loaded until late in the production run, and it was possible for the bolt to jump over the catch and follow the barrel home, which was responsible for many of the feeding problems encountered in testing. The mechanism was progressively improved, and by the final few guns made it was made wholly of positive mechanical cams and the problem was eliminated.

Ian's video: [14:21] https://youtu.be/RBKqvLpxpU4?si=

Read more: https://www.forgottenweapons.com/gabbet-fairfax-mars-automatic-pistol/

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submitted 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) by FireTower@lemmy.world to c/forgottenweapons@lemmy.world

In the 1920s an increasing number of corporations were acquiring machine guns for labor relations related reasons. Deterring striking employees.

Did you know that the Peters company made ammunition specifically for riot control for the Thompson submachine gun in the 1920s? And it wasn’t rubber bullets, either – it was paper-wrapped snakeshot. The cartridges were actually longer than a standard magazine would accept, necessitating the production of a special longer magazine to fit them. That magazine would hold 18 rounds, and was specially marked as such...

... At about 8 feet it made a pattern about 18 inches in diameter (from a rifled Tommy Gun barrel), and did not cycle the action... the proper way to use this ammo for crowd control: fire it into the pavement in front of the crowd, allowing it to ricochet up into the crowd at a lower velocity. It would be less lethal that way, but still a great way to lose an eye!

Ian's video: [5:30] https://youtu.be/ud3Csq6568k?si=

Old Popular Mechanics article that mentions this type of ammo.

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In the early 1970s, Poland wanted to replace their 7.62x39mm Kalashnikov rifles. The Soviet Union was developing the 5.45mm AK-74, but the Poles wanted to make a more ambitious advance in small arms systems. They launched Project Lantan... The plan was to create a modular system similar in concept to the Stoner 63 – a single universal receiver that could be fitted with different components to create variety of weapons. These could include a short carbine, infantry rifle, mag-fed light machine gun, squad automatic, or vehicular machine gun (fired by spade grips or remote solenoid).

The cartridge developed for the rifle was an indigenous 7x41mm round that was longer and more efficient than 7.62x39mm. Two prototype rifles were built... we have a chance to take a close look at number 1. Unfortunately its experimental foam/rubber stock has completely disintegrated in the past 50 years since it was built, but the rest of the rifle is intact. It features separate upper and lower receivers and a quick-change barrel and gas tube.

Once the Soviet Union found out about the project, they forced it to be cancelled. The Soviets wanted caliber commonality within the Warsaw Pact, and they also wanted to collect a license fee from Poland for the AK-74 and 5.45x39mm cartridge. In this they were only partially successful, as the Poles reverse engineered elements of the AK-74 to create their own unique Tantal rifle design instead of licensing the new Kalashnikov. But even so, the Lantan project was squashed before it could advance beyond two initial proof of concept rifles.

Ian's video [15:25] https://youtu.be/5f-nfoLqdO0?si=

https://www.forgottenweapons.com/project-lantan-poland-designs-a-modular-ak-in-7x41mm/

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When the German attack into Russia stagnated in late 1942, some areas of the front returned to a trench-and-sniper sort of warfare that was reminiscent of World War One. The German military actually went so far as to design and issue a periscopic tech rifle mount, the “deckungszielgerät” (DZG). Stereotypically German in design, it was adjustable to fit a variety of different rifles. The original design intent was for the Gewehr 41(M) and 41(W), but the devices were quickly modified to also fit captured SVT-40 rifles, and the K98k could also be used if necessary (although unlike the WW1 trench rifle mounts, these had no mechanism for cycling a bolt action).

It is unclear how many DZGs were actually made, but certainly not many. This example has been heavily restored, but none of the known surviving ones have serial numbers of manufacturer codes (the “DZG” stamped on the side is its designation, not a manufacturer).

For more information, see Michael Heidler’s article in Small Arms Review:

http://www.smallarmsreview.com/display.article.cfm?idarticles=315

I don't speak German but I Google translated the name and got "Cover Target Device".

Ian's video: [6:42] https://youtu.be/zmhzfmZByDo?si=

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This is the Erika, developed by Franz Pfannl and chambered for the 4.25mm Liliput cartridge (which develops approximately 1/4 the energy of the .25 ACP).

These pistols were actually carried for personal protection, under the theory that any gun was better than no gun, and that the presentation and threat of a gunshot would be sufficient to dissuade an attacker (or with the idea of using them on stray dogs, for example).

Practicality aside, the mechanical internals of tiny pistols like this Erika are quite interesting to see, simple because of their minute size. Pfannl really was part gunsmith and part watchmaker…

Ian's video: [8:56] https://youtu.be/7PaUNIbztus?si=

https://www.forgottenweapons.com/erika-4-25mm-pistol-at-ria/

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One of the very last, most common, and best looking of the Austrian manually operated pistols is the Bittner. Designed by Gustav Bittner in 1893 and going into production in 1896 (the known examples were proofed in 1897 and 1898)... Several hundred were made; possibly as many as 500. They were produced for the civilian market only, with an option for a fancy presentation case. The Bittner was the last gasp of the manually operated pistol, as successful self-loaders like the C96 Mauser were being introduced alongside it.

Note that the numbers often found on the bottom of the barrel are not serial numbers – they are Vienna proof house sequential numbers. The actual Bittner serial numbers are stamped on the inside of the frame, visible only after removing the side plate.

Ian's video: [9:52] https://youtu.be/lXHXXbAJ-lE?si=

https://www.forgottenweapons.com/1896-bittner-the-most-beautiful-steampunk-pistol/

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The Winans Steam Gun was a steam-powered centrifugal gun used during the American Civil War, which used centrifugal (rather than gunpowder) to propel projectiles.

Similar in size to a steam-powered fire engine of the day, the gun had a menacing appearance thanks to a large curved shield covering its inner workings.

Its mechanism involved a shielded barrel that rotated up to 250 times per minute. Shot dumped into the top of the barrel rolled down into it and were held back by a spring-loaded gate that opened to allow one shot to be flung out per revolution of the barrel. Despite the effort invested in the project, it was unable to match the accuracy or power of the gunpowder weaponry of the time, and thus the steam gun project was abandoned.

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As air is blasted forward in the blast chamber a vacuum is created. This causes cool air to be pulled through the radiator via the capillaries across the barrel. Resulting in the barrel being cooled from firing and preventing overheating.

The Lewis gun was designed by an American, Colonel Isaac Newton Lewis. It was one of the first successful air-cooled light machine gun designs, and used an aluminum radiator to pull heat off the barrel. The gun was used extensively in both World Wars.

Royal armouries video of the paper moving: [1:26] https://youtu.be/IIBxSv3XQEU?si=

Ian's video: [13:50] https://youtu.be/l73mR4D9pYw?si=

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The Spectre SMG, or as fans of GoldenEye 007 for the N64 might know it the legally distinct Phantom SMG, was made by an Italian company SITES from 1984 until 2001.

It has an interesting closed-bolt fire control system, and in SMG for a metal top folding stock.

Ian's video [22:04] https://youtu.be/q1sbYHR0jxk?si=

At the range: [7:53] https://youtu.be/KTAs-yb2t9w?si=

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The SilencerCo Maxim 9 is an integrally suppressed 9mm handgun that operates on a proprietary delayed blowback system. They call it a delayed wing system, similar to a roller delayed system. (Part 90 is the wing)

At the time of the Maxim Vice debut, the initial Maxim 9 prototypes were built on a highly modified Smith & Wesson M&P frame and slide. The final version now features a proprietary frame and slide, but utilizes Glock magazines. The pistol also sports an optics plate for micro red dot mounting options.

Forgotten Weapons video: [6:32] https://youtu.be/j2Fbaz3T7Rc?si=

TFBtv video: [16:10] https://youtu.be/q_vOF1lFhvQ?si=

The TFB video provides more coverage the FW one is a first impressions at ShotShow.

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If you like early night vision stuff you should check out this post.

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submitted 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) by FireTower@lemmy.world to c/forgottenweapons@lemmy.world

The Velo-Dog... was a pocket revolver originally created in France by René Galand... in the late 19th-century as a defense for cyclists against dog attacks. The name is a compound word composed of "velocipede" and "dog".

Some additional context during the period France had a large amount of feral dogs. Also for fellow dog lovers they did make less-lethal ammunition for these. The name Velo-Dog is used to refer to a class of guns (pocket carry small caliber revolvers) from that period rather than a specific make and model.

Royal Armouries video: [13:36] https://youtu.be/oG-vw_zvMY8?si=Zi391RG9AIH3vbbB

Ian's video: [13:36] https://youtu.be/6nB2fjFw8iM?si=

Coincidence that they're both the same length.

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submitted 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) by FireTower@lemmy.world to c/forgottenweapons@lemmy.world

Link if the animation doesn't show for you

The Alofs conversion is a contraption that can be bolted onto the side of a single shot break action shotgun to convert it into a 4+1 capacity repeating action. Patented by Herman Alofs in 1924 (https://patents.google.com/patent/US1507881), it was sold in the mid/late 1920s for $6. Surviving advertisements show it in the Iver Johnson catalog listed as 12ga, and in flyers directly from the Alofs Manufacturing Company offering it in 12, 16, 20, and .410 gauges...

Perhaps the most remarkable thing about the Alofs is that it actually works! As long as it is mounted properly (the mount is adjustable to get correct spacing and alignment), it actually does exactly what it advertises. One could buy a single shot gun and an Alofs unit for about half the cost of a pump action repeating shotgun. Of course, a true pump action was a much preferably option, but for those tight on money the Alofs was actually a mostly-viable option.

Ian's Video: [18:37] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=

C&Rnsenal Video: [2:08} https://youtu.be/hNIkca8k1UQ?si=

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submitted 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) by FireTower@lemmy.world to c/forgottenweapons@lemmy.world

This advert shows off a magazine fed revolver that fired triangular cartridges or 'trounds'.

I made another post a month ago with more info on this design but I had this saved on my phone and figured I'd post this before deleting the PNG.

https://lemmy.world/post/8643292

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The Treeby chain gun was a .54 caliber percussion rifle that could fire 14 rounds in rapid succession. Designed in 1854, it was unlike anything else available at the time. Only two were ever made, with the hope of receiving a contract from the British Army...

Firing the Treeby rifle requires following a specific process. First, of course, each of the 14 chambers must be loaded with powder and ball, and a percussion cap placed on the firing nipple on each one. Once the weapon is all loaded, the lever on the barrel must be rotated up. The barrel is connected to the frame by way of a very coarse thread, so lifting the barrel lever pulls the barrel forward, away from the chamber. Next, the hammer is manually cocked, which rotates the chain of chambers and indexes one into position. Then the barrel lever is rotated back down, pulling the barrel in and sealing it against the chamber. Only now can the trigger be pulled, which fires the round currently sealed up to the barrel.

After firing, the process repeats until all 14 rounds are expended... The manual of arms for this rifle is likely one of the reasons is was not pursued by the British Army...

... by sealing the chamber for each shot it provides higher velocities than revolver-type designs with a gap between barrel and cylinder. The Treeby also would be very unlikely to suffer from chain-firing, in which the spark from the main chamber ignites one or more adjacent chambers... Since the chamber is fully sealed, no sparks or blast can escape in the vicinity of the open chambers.

Read the full passage: https://www.forgottenweapons.com/rifles/treeby-chain-gun/

Or watch Ian's video: [3:00] https://youtu.be/sXpJYNQJAcQ?si=

Or the more recent Royal Armories one: [6:56] https://youtu.be/uI-jWltuSyA?si=

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Duck's Foot Pistol (lemmy.world)

Duck’s foot pistols are one of the iconic classic “weird gun” categories. This one exemplifies the typical pattern, with four barrels arranged in a wedge, fired simultaneously with a single flintlock action.

Traditionally, these are attributed to people like prison wardens and ships’ captains, who might have to confront mobs of prisoners or a mutinous crew. Whether this is actually supported by historical fact or is just apocryphal communal belief, I do not know…

Ian's video: [7:37] https://youtu.be/vDvyLuSeJyk?si=

https://www.forgottenweapons.com/prisons-and-pirate-mutinies-the-ducks-foot-pistol/

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The Gepard PDW (Russian for Cheetah) is an experimental weapon, based on the AKS-74U. It was designed by Gennady Sitov and Aleksandr Shevchenko in 1995-1997 and suggested for law enforcement agencies but never put into service. The most interesting feature is that the Gepard can shoot no less than five different calibers without any swapping. With swapping out the bolt and barrel, the number of available calibers increases to fifteen.

Depending on the caliber, the weapon fires by blowback, delayed blowback, or gas operation; for most caliber changes, only a change in the recoil springs, bolt, and barrel is necessary.

view more: next ›

Forgotten Weapons

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This is a community dedicated to discussion around historical arms, mechanically unique arms, and Ian McCollum's Forgotten Weapons content. Posts requesting an identification of a particular gun (or other arm) are welcome.

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