Beehaw defederating update - sh.itjust.works (sh.itjust.works)

submitted 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) by TheDude@sh.itjust.works to c/main@sh.itjust.works

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Like many of you, I woke up this morning to discover that our instance, along with lemmy.world, had been unexpectedly added to the beehaw block list. Although this development initially caught me off guard, the administrators at beehaw made an announcement shedding light on their decision.

The primary concern raised was our instance's policy of open registration. Given my belief that the fediverse is still navigating its early stages, I believe that for it to mature, gain traction, and encourage adoption, it is crucial for instances to offer an uncomplicated and direct route for newcomers to join and participate. This was one of the reason I decided to launch this instance. However, I do acknowledge that this inclusive approach brings its unique challenges, including the potential for toxicity and trolls. Despite these hurdles, I maintain the conviction that our collective strength as a community can overcome these issues.

After this happened, the beehaw admins and I had a good chat about their decision. While our stances on registration policies might diverge, we realized that our ultimate goals are aligned: we both strive to foster communities that thrive in an atmosphere of safety and respect, where users can passionately engage in discussions and feel a sense of belonging.

Although the probability of an immediate reversal are slim given the current circumstances, I believe we have managed to identify common ground. It's evident that, even in separation, we can unite to contribute positively to the broader fediverse community.

In the coming weeks or months, we plan to collaborate with other lemmy instance administrators to suggest enhancements and modifications to the lemmy project. Primarily, our proposals will concentrate on devising tools and features that empower us, as instance administrators, to moderate our platforms effectively.

In the meantime, while I understand may not be ideal for everyone, users who choose to participate on the beehaw instance will be required to register a separate account on their instance.

Thank you all for continuing to make this community great!

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[-] Baku@sh.itjust.works 4 points 1 year ago

I'd just like to say that I appreciate your stance on open registration and making things as uncomplicated as possible. I signed up for a Beehaw account before this even happened, but I did find having to explain myself and justify my presence a little confusing. I also signed up for a discuss.tchncs.de account and I was so confused and thought their website was broken because once I clicked sign up, it didn't do anything. Just span around in a circle. It wasn't until I checked my email that I realised it wanted me to confirm my email. Here, things did just work. No complications, just entered my name, email and password, clicked sign up, and I was done! I guess you could say... shit just works on sh.itjust.works

[-] imaqtpie@sh.itjust.works 3 points 1 year ago

Brief explanation of how defederation works.

Basically Beehaw and all its communities and users are now blocking everyone from this server. We can't post to their communities and they can't see anything that we post on third party communities either.

However, this server has not defederated Beehaw. Therefore, we can still see their users commenting on third party communities, and we can even reply to them, they just won't see our reply, although neutral parties will.

Both Beehaw and sh.itjust.works are still able to contribute significant activity to Lemmy as a whole, just not directly to each other for now. Let's all be diligent on reporting and banning trolls quickly so we can maintain the collegial atmosphere here.

[-] dick@exploding-heads.com 3 points 1 year ago

i joined the fediverse to shitpost, but more importantly to create a new community.

beehaw's actions are VERY bad for the fediverse. for any social network to succeed it needs USERS. and when you have an entrenched giant, you need all the help you can get. federation is great but it also means a more spread out community which makes it hard for any one instance to succeed. what beehaw is doing is just chopping the legs off the fediverse right when it's finding its footing.

also to an outsider, the fediverse is already confusing enough. now we can to deal with the whole "oh you can join this server and not that" and "if you join here, you can see them but they can't see you" nonsense. closed registrations turn away people, this sort of chaos also turns away people.

i'm personally blocking all beehaw servers. i appreciate moderation is hard, and sad that trolls are coming in so early. but moderation is a solvable problem. instead of opening applications for more mods, they decided to go the cowardly route.

[-] imaqtpie@sh.itjust.works 0 points 1 year ago

I get that we need more users. But allowing the communities who were here first to get torn apart is not how you do that. The beehaw users have already shown the ability to grow communities from scratch. That's exactly the kind of people we want here.

But they also need to be given space to build those communities. This is essentially the core concept of Lemmy, that federation allows you to have large high activity communities coexisting in peace with small niche communities. You get to have both things on the same platform, because instances that come into conflict can defederate without having any impact on the network as a whole.

There are many bigger reasons that the platform is confusing, the beehaw situation doesn't even move the needle. If anything, I think the defederation has helped many people start to understand how cool the federated structure can be.

I understand you're frustrated they couldn't just moderate the problem away, but seriously man, don't be so dramatic. Beehaw is cutting the legs off the fediverse? Bro if the fediverse fails it won't be due to the actions of beehaw, I can tell you that much.

[-] Cracks_InTheWalls@sh.itjust.works 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

This might be good for some folks to read here to get a better feel of what Beehaw positions themselves as and their thinking:

(What is Beehaw?)[https://beehaw.org/post/107014]
(Behaw is a community)[https://beehaw.org/post/140733]
(A few thoughts on Beehaw's design)[https://beehaw.org/post/439918]

Edit: My assumption is that the links will open in your browser. If this isn't the case maybe I can stick these posts in a pastebin or something, lemmy know ;)

I'm personally disappointed but don't fault them. MY thinking is along The Dude's - ease of participation is key, with all of the risks that entails - but that's why I'm here rather than elsewhere.

Something I don't think a lot of people quite get yet - this is the DIY web. Different people take different approaches to community building, some very carefully and meticulously, and others not so much. And that's good - cool, even, IMO. Clashes are going to happen, but that's ok.

So you can pick another instance, or spin your own, but I'd rather people come from a place of participation rather than consumption on Lemmy writ large. One of the bigger instances defederated from us? Well shit, guess we're gonna have to make some content ourselves.

Post often, comment often, call fellow sh.it.heads (and other folks too) out if they're acting like shitheads. Be a positive presence in the Fediverse. Make some friends. The rest will sort itself out in time.

[-] Oni_eyes@sh.itjust.works 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Anyone else noticing that the only people getting pissy about this instance being defederated from beehaw due to trolls....

...Aren't even from from this instance?

Just asshats from exploding heads feeling the need to come defend their right to be dicks.

[-] Difficult_Bit_1339@sh.itjust.works 1 points 1 year ago

Serious question: What is the alternative to open registration? Invite-only? What is the expectation?

Seems a bit kneejerk to defederate, that's employing the nuclear option as the first step. It doesn't leave a lot of room for dialog.

[-] magic@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Oh, so the person who posted their tiny penis on the feminism community actually admitted to it? Fascinating. They do know their post lasted like two minutes, right? I was more impressed with Beehaw's moderation team acting so fast than I was with their quick shot.

[-] toastio@sh.itjust.works 1 points 1 year ago

That's a bummer. I get it (somewhat), but I'm not really fan of that type of gatekeeping by beehaw. On the positive side, it makes me really appreciate this instance/community and makes me want to interact more on here instead. So I'm looking forward to that.

[-] penisthightrap@sh.itjust.works 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Yeah. They value heavy moderation as a way to sanitize their community. Fine if that's what they want but this has quickly taught me that instance isn't for me. Too authoritarian in my view.

I'm impressed with how The Dude seems to be handling things here.

[-] RobbTargaryen@sh.itjust.works 0 points 1 year ago

The Beehaw moderator just release an update that is interesting and very good-willed. But I'm confused. I had no problem commenting in Nature and Gardening which is on the Beehaw instance. I thought this wasn't possible as a sh.itjust.works user?

[-] Implant@sh.itjust.works 1 points 1 year ago

You can comment there and I probably can see it. They can't because they're not pulling sh.itjust.works data.

[-] RobbTargaryen@sh.itjust.works 1 points 1 year ago

That makes sense! Is there a place we can see instances that we defederated, if any? I was trying to find Container Gardening which is in instance "I use arch linux FYI" but haven't had any luck.

[-] HandOfDoom@lemmy.world 0 points 1 year ago

It is possible, but Beehaw users won't see your comment (I may be wrong, this is still a bit complicated for me as well).

[-] nodiet@feddit.de 1 points 1 year ago

In fact, no one outside of your instance will be able to see it, because everyone else's version is in sync with beehaw, which doesn't get your comments.

[-] deva@sh.itjust.works 0 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Fuck em, I applied to several different servers and it took days to get accepted. Open registration is necessary

[-] cyberdecker@sh.itjust.works 0 points 1 year ago

I do acknowledge that this inclusive approach brings its unique challenges, including the potential for toxicity and trolls.

Annnnnnd there it is.

[-] deva@sh.itjust.works 1 points 1 year ago

What?

[-] Ataraxia@lemmy.world 0 points 1 year ago

It's almost as if they're getting the result they were looking for. People saying they disagree with their choice are exactly the people they're trying to avoid lol.

[-] deva@sh.itjust.works 1 points 1 year ago

I was enjoying their tech and news communities, fuck me right? So toxic 🙄

[-] Poot@sh.itjust.works 0 points 1 year ago

I know I'm kind of late to this party, but it seems to be a good time to take a moment to say, if no one else has, that there are apps out there like Jerboa, that allow you to keep track of multiple Lemmy accounts quite easily. :)

[-] PentastarM@midwest.social 0 points 1 year ago

Just downloaded Jebora yesterday and I'm really liking it. I initially tried the lemmy.ml website as my first steps into the fediverse, but was sort of confused on how it all linked together. Jebora was a big help for me in finding instances to follow and just generally making my user experience better overall.

So I second this recommendation.