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You always hear the phase “9 to 5” and also the song with the same name. Assuming you include 1 hour worth of breaks (30 minute lunch and two 15 minute breaks), you’re only working for 7 hours a day which comes up to 35 hours a week.

Now it feels like you have to work 8 hours a day (for a total of 40 hours of actual work), plus your other time off meaning you’re really there for 9 hours each day (for a total of 45 hours). Am i looking at that wrong, or did expected times change, and if so, when?

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[-] azdle@news.idlestate.org 13 points 13 hours ago

It has definitely changed, I don't know when, but it's been like this for at least the last decade.

Though, in my experience (NB: I'm a software engineer, which is a notoriously lax field.) only what the piece of paper says has changed. Hell, most of my employee handbooks have claimed that "full time" is 50 hours a week. They get away with it because I'm classified as a "computer employee" (lol) and make more than $35k/year (super lol) which means my employment is exempted from minimum wage and overtime pay laws.

Nobody that I know actually works that consistently. Most people I know don't even do 40. I do 9-5 (or 8:30-4:30 usually), I take breaks when I need them and nobody has ever complained to me about the amount I'm working.

My only guess for why it's this way is that having that be the official working time means it's easier to fire anyone for no reason because they're not working their "contractually obligated" amount of time.

[-] ThePowerOfGeek@lemmy.world 8 points 12 hours ago

I actually had an argument with a former employer quite a few years ago about that 'computer operator' / ~36k limit thing.

My scummy boss at that time was telling me that because of those stipulations I wasn't eligible for any overtime and they could demand I work as many hours as they want - even though I was hourly. When I said that didn't sound right he dared me to look up our state's employment laws.

So I did (side note: I'm in one of the most employee-friendly states), and it very clearly said that my boss was profoundly wrong. So I sent him the URL to that page. And he and the piece of shit HR person shut right up about it. Me and all of my colleague never heard that ridiculous argument again.

My last couple of jobs, including my current one, have been much more reasonable and accommodating. Even though I'm now salary, they aren't exploitative of me or my colleagues.

So my advice to other IT folk is: take the time to check up on your state's employment laws. If you are being exploited by your employer they may be totally in the wrong.

[-] azdle@news.idlestate.org 4 points 11 hours ago* (last edited 11 hours ago)

So my advice to other IT folk is: take the time to check up on your state’s employment laws. If you are being exploited by your employer they may be totally in the wrong.

100%

I'm unfortunately in a state with even more vague and useless definition of who gets to be exempt than the federal definition.

[-] Kaboom@reddthat.com 21 points 14 hours ago

As a guy with an actual office job. It's usually 8-5 or 9-6 with an hour lunch, plus whatever time you spend on coffee or whatever.

It's pretty standard, and it's been that way for a couple decades at least.

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[-] Sundial@lemm.ee 21 points 15 hours ago

Where are you working where you are expected to work through your breaks? 9-5 should include your break times as well, yes.

[-] smokin_shinobi@lemmy.world 15 points 14 hours ago
[-] Sundial@lemm.ee 6 points 14 hours ago

I'm Canadian myself but isn't this illegal? In Canada we have a labor program where you can file a complaint if it comes to that.

[-] smokin_shinobi@lemmy.world 14 points 14 hours ago

Depends on the state. But the reality is you need to hire a lawyer to fight it and we already have to choose between a roof and food most of the time so good luck with that.

[-] Sundial@lemm.ee 6 points 14 hours ago

That sucks, sorry to hear that. I honestly thought the US had a similar thing as well. I guess that explains the huge push for more unions across the US over the past few years.

[-] Cephalotrocity@biglemmowski.win 6 points 14 hours ago

They have it really bad over there. My understanding is most European countries would laugh at Canadian labour law, but Canada laughs at the US's.

[-] Lost_My_Mind@lemmy.world 8 points 14 hours ago

Oh I'm sure you can FILE a complaint here too.

Doesn't mean anybody gives a shit.

[-] wildbus8979@sh.itjust.works 5 points 14 hours ago* (last edited 14 hours ago)

In Canada full time is whatever an employer decides it is, not 35h, not even 40h. In Quebec an employer isn't required to give 15mins break. But if they do they must be paid. The 30mins lunch break is mandatory, but also unpaid. You've just gotten lucky with decent employers/union jobs. I'd imagine other provinces are similar.

https://www.cnesst.gouv.qc.ca/en/working-conditions/work-schedule-and-termination-employment/work-schedule/presence-work-breaks-and-weekly-rest-period

An employer is under no obligation to offer breaks but when a break is granted, it must be paid and be included in the calculation of the hours worked.

After 5 consecutive hours of work, a worker is entitled to a 30-minute meal break, without pay. If the worker is required to remain at their workstation during this time, their meal break must be paid.

[-] xmunk@sh.itjust.works 1 points 10 hours ago* (last edited 10 hours ago)

In British Columbia our labor laws were basically written by EA so tech workers have almost no protection against overtime unless it's contiguous - the only hard limit on working is once you hit 32 continuous hours you must be given time off... BC high tech employees are exempt from any overtime and the only limit they still get is that they must be given eight hours off every day - but that's eight hours not working, not necessarily eight hours of sleep. So you could be asked to work 32 continuous hours then be sent home with a forty-five minute drive, get home, sleep for six and a half hours (or try to) then get back in your car to drive back to the office to work another sixteen hours.

If you objected to this schedule you could quit but you'd have no legal recourse to sue your employer.

Oh, and in the above three day scenario (home for eight, work for thirty two, home for eight, work for sixteen) you'd be paid the same if you worked for twenty four hours over three days.

BC tech workers have no rights.

[-] Cephalotrocity@biglemmowski.win 0 points 14 hours ago

Depends on the Province I think. Where I'm at you're entitled to 30 min off (unpaid) within the first 5 hours, and another within 8 if you're working longer than 8 hours. 15 min breaks are not mandated except that if the company gives you them they must be paid.

[-] ChaoticNeutralCzech@feddit.org 5 points 14 hours ago

I'd guess too. In central and eastern Europe, 7 to 3 is the norm but nobody pronounces it that.

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[-] criitz@reddthat.com 15 points 14 hours ago* (last edited 14 hours ago)

I work in a salaried office job in the US, and in 2 decades of working at different companies I've always worked 9 to 5 AND taken an hour lunch. Of course, I've also had plenty of pressure to work outside of those hours when needed. Which escalated to 50-60 hour weeks with night and weekend work at the worst (I left that job shortly after).But I've never done 9 to 6 as official hours.

[-] socsa@piefed.social 13 points 13 hours ago

Same. For professional work nobody really cares how you punch the clock as long as you get your work done and don't try to be too annoying about your hours. The only time I've ever even heard it brought up was when someone tried to work like 5am to 1pm meaning they had a very small window to schedule meetings with normal people.

[-] Dasnap@lemmy.world 4 points 11 hours ago

All my jobs have either been 9-5 or 9:30-5:30 with an hour lunch included. TBH I've never tracked my pay by the hour, just the day.

[-] urquell@lemm.ee 8 points 14 hours ago

Dutch law describes a mandatory break of 30 minutes (or 2 15 minute breakes) if a working day is longer that 5.5 hours. Break is not work, thus not payed.

https://www.rijksoverheid.nl/onderwerpen/werktijden/vraag-en-antwoord/wettelijke-regels-pauzes-tijdens-werk

[-] j4k3@lemmy.world 14 points 14 hours ago

This neglects that the breaks are not free time spent as desired and is entirely constrained to the circumstances of employment. You would not eat or do the same tasks in the timespan. Therefore it is not your time and should be compensated for. Like owning a vehicle, you still own it even when you are not driving it or it is broken down. Pretending ownership is only limited to the time the vehicle is in gear and moving is delusional logic for any such pro slavery State. Employment must include far more ethical responsibly than this.

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[-] owenfromcanada@lemmy.world 8 points 14 hours ago

It's one of those ambiguous things that employers seem to be leveraging to their advantage. Where I work, plenty of people do 8-5. Those of us who have been around longer and don't give as much of a shit will count lunch as part of our day.

[-] Kelly@lemmy.world 5 points 14 hours ago

My time sheet totals 37.5 hours of work per week and I can take take a lunch break of 30 to 60 minutes. The break is unpaid and a minimum break of 30 minutes is required after 5 straight hours of work so the lunch break is mandatory.

Typically this works out to 7.5 hours work with a 30 minutes break totalling 8 hours on site. Smaller breaks are untimed so if we need to stretch our legs or get some fresh air no one is watching the clock. We also have a pretty good culture of not interrupting people's lunch with work issues so that does feel like an actual break.

[-] themeatbridge@lemmy.world 6 points 14 hours ago

It depends on where you are and whether you join a union or not. Labor laws vary by state and by country. Paid lunches and breaks may or may not be part of your employment contract.

[-] adespoton@lemmy.ca 4 points 13 hours ago

In Canada, the regulations have been 8 hour workday with two paid 15 minute breaks in that period and an unpaid 30 minute break for salaried workers, unless otherwise agreed by contract, since I started working in the early 90s.

This means a lot of people work 9-5:30 or 8:30-5. Union jobs generally have a 8 hour day in total with a 1 hour lunch break, and other professions have other arrangements.

For a number of years, I took my “lunch break” at 5 and just worked a straight 8 hour day with two 15 minute breaks.

[-] Kalkaline@leminal.space 3 points 13 hours ago

Shit, 45 hours a week would be amazing, my now former employer wanted me working 5 12hour shifts and pay me so little I needed a weekend job on top of that.

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[-] corsicanguppy@lemmy.ca -3 points 8 hours ago

did [...] included

Nope. It's 'did include' .

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this post was submitted on 17 Oct 2024
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