It already happened in Ukraine during the NotPetya attack by Russia in 2017

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_Ukraine_ransomware_attacks

The risk of the payment system getting shut down and people being unable to make payments for a while is real. And it is one good reason to be less reliant on digital payments.

Or entities. The USA had a brief oil crisis recently because one of the major pipeline companies had their billing system hacked. Since the company couldn't verify whether someone had paid, they just didn't supply any oil.

Couple that with some misleading news stories and social media panic, and it blew up into a proper shortage from people hoarding all the petrol, and leaving none left.

Having that data for every citizen of a country could enable efficient profiling of people in the country using big data analysis technologies.

You don't need an external actor for that, a government can very well do that to their citizens...

It's largely a non-issue in the Nordic countries as you basically have to voluntarily opt out of any government aid programs to be homeless, which understandably most don't. This goes for most, if not all, vulnerable groups; most of the help is decently robust, at least enough to keep you fed and in housing. So I don't think it's a very large portion of the consideration, almost everything is paid via mobile pay, checks (any, not just from working) are all done digitally as well.

In Germany any EU resident has a right to a basic account, in case you're homeless you should have an address because you're in a shelter, if you insist on sleeping rough (or the municipality is just too fucked up, happens in places) you can give the address of a social work organisation (those are all over also doing debtor counselling and a lot of other stuff).

Only valid reason for a bank to refuse basic business is if you tried to defraud them. They don't have to give you a credit line, but they do have to accept your money, store it, and let you wire it (incl. POS payments etc).

Identity fraud is not an issue because they'll want to see a proper ID which, if you're legally in the country, you have.

It's less about paying, though, you can always pay with cash in Germany, it's about the welfare authorities not wanting to handle cash and cheques only if actually necessary.

Affordable housing and the threat by malicious actors to attack digital payment systems are two different things. Homelessness has to be addressed, of course, but we are dealing here with something else.

It's funny because actually you can receive mails pretty much everywhere without giving an actual address. P.O boxes and post restante. Only banks keep enforcing residential addresses as it was a guarantee of having lack of identity frauds.

I don't like using cashless anything because I know part of the cost is my privacy. Having said that, convenience is a powerful draw and cash can be a pain, especially when you have to find a spot for small coins.

In the EU and UK, heavy regulation, especially of Visa and MasterCard, means the fees are actually lower than the costs of handling cash. Lots of businesses want only card transactions because it works out better for them and most people don't carry any cash so that need to offer card payments, and so it makes even less sense to offer both methods. The only industries who like cash are likely trying some form of tax evasion.

Cleverly, they banned businesses from charging any payment fees and suddenly, businesses negotiated and found suppliers offering low payment fees. We don't have anything like these convenience fees for paying with cards over cheque that I hear about.

Amex still charges higher fees so many places still don't take those cards. The value of benefits (air miles, cashback) have gone down significantly but in reality, it was essentially transferring wealth from the poor (who could never get these cards) to the rich, through these fees, so works out better overall.

The banks here advertise that they help everyone get bank accounts and social benefits are paid into bank accounts so I assume everyone is able to get an account. However, I do wonder if some people, especially the homeless, slip through the cracks.

It's extremely disappointing to me (admittedly in the US) that Covid seems to have obliterated any chance for a large-scale investigation on payment processors' stranglehold on our financial systems. The fees that Visa/Mastercard/etc. charge, especially for tiny merchants with insanely low transaction numbers, are criminal.

there haven't been card fees for end users in Sweden for many years. handling cash is a lot more expensive since you need somewhere secure to keep change, you loose time at the till handling the money, and you need to pay for someone to come pick it up. the time gained from just having the customers pay with card means businesses gladly swallow the fees.

and yes, i'm always surprised when going abroad how much more analog everything is. the nordics and Baltic's are generally at about the same level (with Estonia way ahead), but the rest of the continent feels like it's 10 years behind. I was once asked if I really wanted to pay with card in a corner shop in Leipzig, since the card fee was €10.

not that i'm a fan of the digitalisation, it makes marginalised groups even more marginalised. i see my elderly relatives struggling with it often.

Not true. When I was in Sweden a couple years ago, I used cash. From Malmo to Kiruna (and lots between). I only encountered one place where I was forced to pay with card and couldn't just go across the street to pay with cash.

Fortunately its not a cashless society, they just came dangerously close to becoming one.

Cash is still used a lot. Especially for second hand small purchases. Not everyone wants to do the PayPal dance at a car boot.

Much lower risk of getting robbed

Maybe that works in Sweden, but in other places you get shot if you're not carrying money with you 😅