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submitted 2 days ago* (last edited 1 day ago) by Beardsley@lemmy.world to c/gaming@lemmy.ml

I think gamers as a whole, though specifically those in niche communities, need to take a long and hard look at themselves. We should celebrate the volunteers that create wonderful content for us, generally with no financial gain. Instead, commonly, there are communities that criticize and tear down every little thing they can think of. They even went as far as to doxx the poor woman. We need to be better, and we need to hold these kind of toxic trolls accountable. Especially those of us who are men, we have a responsibility to call out other men who mistreat women in the gaming industry, or gaming in general.

*Edit: I apologize if I insinuated that all gamers are guilty of this kind of behavior, that was not my intention at all. My sentiment is that many of us do not think about this kind of thing, and less are willing to speak out against their friends. We need to be better about that as a whole. I appreciate you as a person if you are already of this mindset.

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[-] Aatube@kbin.melroy.org 36 points 2 days ago

now before anyone gets misled by some of the reddit threads gamesradar linked to, some quotes from the relevant reddit thread:

I worked extensively on most of her mods. In the period immediately following the Daegon 2.0 controversy, I tracked down several recurring trolls (people here might remember them as cycling through Reddit usernames like "SeranasStankPussy" and other such things) as originating from literal Kiwifarms.

She made a female follower mod called Daegon. It was a suggestive follower with sexy voice and looks, and "bratty princess" personality.

There was an idea about developing romance option for the follower. The fans were so excited about it. However she ended up adding a bodyguard character as Daegon's romantic partner instead of opening the options to player. Daegon also had a major backstory rewrite, which was deemed as straying too far from TES lore. Fans felt betrayed. The backlash was so fervently hostile that anything the author posted always received downvotes and she was demeaned/harassed for posting anything (something like "you dare to show your face here?"), even when it's not related to Daegon.

At the time, she removed the old version and people leaked her discord server chat, which was very hostile and demeaning to the people complaining.

Basically: the mod author developed and people on her discord developed a para-social relationship and it went as expected. You can search this sub for that whole thing

There's more details on her discord (as usual):

my photos get passed around on skyrim servers, im called a slut and whore, and for what?

gamesradar linked to a few of the threads that got overwhelmed with trolls, who amplified how she blocked users (some of which inappropriately) from her mod pages and claimed she encouraged her fans to doxx people based on a single out-of-context screenshot of a random discord fan.

[-] winterayars@sh.itjust.works 14 points 1 day ago

Sounds like the exact kind of entitled, whiny man babies i was expecting.

[-] YarrMatey@lemmy.dbzer0.com 7 points 1 day ago

This is a both sides suck here for me.

I read a few of the reddit threads and there were legitimate criticisms that the follower started out cringey and edgy but a lore-friendly bratty elf and then after some big update the follower was turned into an over-the-top melodramatic edgy super evil non-lore-friendly entity (vampire demon dragon princess from another reality that is more powerful than any of the gods of TES) who now had a boyfriend equally evil with many voice lines about how much the two of them were horny for each other, and like to burn down inns full of people for fun.

There were some cringey guys upset they were being cucked, too many gamers in general are obsessed about the possibility of being cucked by some pixels and are ridiculously fragile about it.

But the mod author lashed out at both the trolls and people caught in the crossfire, the community became more upset, just an angry cycle. People asked about being able to download the old version before the changes since the mod author hid the older version - Nexus doesn't allow mod authors to delete their work anymore so people's mod lists don't break but they for some stupid reason allow mod authors to hide older versions from users which can only be accessed by having the right link and it is a pain to get. Eventually the mod author releases the older version again as its own mod. But at this point the community hates them because of an image showing someome on the mod author's discord talking about doxxing anyone who upset the mod author which the author offered gleeful support of.

There was a guy in the thread (ZootAllures9111) who said he helped develop and code the mod (you quoted him in your comment) and he said that practically all criticisms were trolls from kiwifarms, and that the person who wanted to doxx others on the discord was just being silly and edgy and only disingenuous people would take their silly edginess at face value. Also that they won't play "this game with you" when asked how the mod author responded to this person wanting to doxx people because (CW:transphobia) the only image you need to look at is some random troll on a website called kiwifarms complaining about being a third wheel to two horny NPCs in the mod and something about being a cuck and that other followers don't need sex to sell basically. Then when someone in the reddit thread asks why they keep posting and deleting their same comment with someone else chiming in confirming they also noticed this, the guy offers a reasonable explanation about network issues and then says, "I remember you from the comment sections of our mods now by the way, you are exactly as disingenous as I thought yesterday and you're not gonna get anywhere pretending otherwise." Which the innocent guy replies, "You should maybe take a break because you’re getting paranoid now. I’ve never used your mod, have no intention to, and the first time I’ve heard of all this drama was when this thread came up."

Why mention this? Because I think it is shitty to "joke" about doxxing people and defend this "joking" and call everyone speaking out a troll from kiwifarm and I can see why the community doesn't like the direction the author took and how annoying it is to not be able to go back to an older version of the mod. And I've read the threads, they were not overwhelmed with trolls unless you think people who criticize a mod author are always trolls. But I also think it is shitty and unacceptable how much harassment the author got. They are not the first author to get harassed off of Skyrim modding, even Vilja's author was chased off for IMO stupid reasons. The Skyrim modding community is full of assholes, both mod authors and users alike. It used to be routine how many mod authors would lose their shit and delete their mods.

[-] Aatube@kbin.melroy.org 4 points 1 day ago

i get that there's valid criticism, but the amount of bad was incongruent with the amount of vitriol in that era that were so demanding

the mod author lashed out at both the trolls and people caught in the crossfire

where tho

it is shitty to "joke" about doxxing people

definitely, but none of us have seen the context. i've been having trouble finding the discord server, and it'd be great if you could find it and the context

they were not overwhelmed with trolls

that's how they read, especially when you compare their comments to the reddit post i linked. not even the sympathy for a person who leaves explains the difference to me

[-] YarrMatey@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

I typed a long ass comment on my phone and summit crashed not saving any of it, fucking hell. Anyway I have to refind all the comments again.

Here is where:

u/WoodenRocketShip

People absolutely dragged the mod and the mod author when the update with her boyfriend came out. Normally if people got that mad over something that happens in a mod you'd get pushback from others saying that it's just not for you and it's not your place to judge, but the mod author was also silencing critics and absolutely going off with her army of followers, so yeah no pushback everyone was on the same page. For a couple of weeks she and her mod were the big bads of this subreddit.

u/Live_Hippo_5885

That's a bit wild silencing your critics changing her race and backstory is a bit drastic but it's their mod I suppose, I don't really care that she has a boyfriend I like having a bro to adventure with dude's just kind of a dick imo.

u/WoodenRocketShip

Yeah see if it was just that, then I'd just chalk it up as a mod that I'm uninstalling and never thinking about it again as I barely liked Daegon before. If the mod author didn't go around silencing criticism in the mod's comments, some of which wasn't even criticism and was from genuine fans curious about certain things, then I don't think many people would have said anything.

People on this thread claimed they were banned for not liking the mod, asking questions about the mod, etc. before the comments section was removed altogether.

The context of the discord image joking about doxxing given by the Zoot guy defending the mod author is that it was a random discord user who they did not know who was known for being overdramatic and later on they think someone else told the user to cool it. Doxxing is serious to me so I do not think this context absolves the image, it feels worse since the mod author doesn't even know the person and just gleefully agrees with them to the point another rando has to tell them to stop. I think the mod author is immature and the random user probably a teenager. It's the only thing that makes sense why they would joke like that. I'm not digging for the discord, I've not only already wasted enough time with this comment since summit crashed on me but also find it a waste of time.

The thread talking about the mod author leaving was very sympathetic. My original comment had the top 9 or 10 comments and a few replies from the thread to prove to you that it was not overwhelmed by trolls. But there is no way I'm doing that again. Just read it yourself. If you still think they are not sympathetic enough then something is seriously wrong with your interpretation.

[-] Aatube@kbin.melroy.org 2 points 1 day ago

I actually read the part about banning too many people, though I wouldn't characterize it as "lashing out". I'm pretty sure I included a quote about it but I didn't. Weird.

I wasn't saying they weren't sympathetic enough, I'm saying that the amount of criticizing here is way too little compared to the two threads linked in the article to shrug off as caused by sympathy.

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[-] Track_Shovel@slrpnk.net 9 points 1 day ago

Christ, humanity at its best.

[-] korbel@lemmy.ml 5 points 1 day ago

Reading the article, this is a typical case of burnout. It's happening to every artist, content creator, modder, foss developer, etc. On the long term we all have to find a balance or we won't last long. And tbh, just learn to ignore the trolls and focus on the positive things and your passion or they will win. You can't take them seriously. It seems the person in the article has already found herself another passion project and could throw away the suffocating chains of responsibilty and something she did not enjoy anymore and move on. I think instances like these really show us we are all just humans and we should appreciate the things we are given.

[-] WatDabney@sopuli.xyz 24 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

This broad dynamic isn't new and it isn't unique either to gaming or to men. Every single creative volunteer community on the net is filled with assholes and drama llamas, of any and all genders. It's just the nature of the thing. You see the same things over and over with game modding, cracking, romhacking, emulation, manga scanlation, anime fansubbing, vocaloid production, mmd modeling, fanfic, fanart, and so on and on.

People often (generally?) are willing to invest the time and energy into whatever it is that they're going to post online at least in large part because they crave the attention they hope it will bring, and specifically, they want to be lauded for their talent and skill.

And that often runs up against the fact that an awful lot of the responses they're going to get are going to come from self-absorbed and entitled assholes bitching because they don't like whatever it is that they're getting for free, and think they have to be accommodated.

And very often, the response from the creator, unsurprisingly really, is to effectively (or even literally) say, "Fine then - fuck you all. I'm done."

And 'round and 'round it goes, and has from the start, and likely will never stop. It's just an unfortunate but pretty much inevitable clash between a personality type that's likely to create and share something online for free and a personality type that's likely to comment on something somebody else created and shared with them for free.

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[-] black_lugia@sh.itjust.works 21 points 2 days ago

"gamers as a whole"

leave me out of this i didnt do anything.

[-] blind3rdeye@lemm.ee 4 points 1 day ago

I've been a great fan of gaming for my entire long life. But I don't play online games any more, because so many gamers are toxic. Obviously there are good individuals and some good outposts, but taken as a whole it is a toxic community.

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[-] Arbiter@lemmy.world 19 points 2 days ago

Man, gaming communities are so fucking toxic.

[-] Delphia@lemmy.world 18 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

I put wheels on my car which are a cheap copy of a very popular wheel because they were $500 not $2000 and I dont race. Every car meet someone has to comment that Im running "fakes" and try to give me a hard time about it. Yeah, Ive got a mortgage and a kid. Fuck off with your Supreme snapback ass hypebeast bullshit. I'm building the car I can afford.

People are toxic, even communities who preach peace and love as their doctrine have people who will whip out the moral-cock ruler and start shit over who is more peaceful and loving.

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[-] rustyfish@lemmy.world 17 points 2 days ago

Thousands of hours, months of hard work. For about 300 bucks and a bunch of incels doxxing and harassing her.

I cannot fathom why she left.

[-] stardust@lemmy.ca 9 points 1 day ago

I think gaming is too mainstream like television/movie viewers to lump it into some type of niche group/activity these days. Especially with the increased communication and connectivity that the internet provides that brings all sorts of wanted and unwanted people together.

I'm someone who enjoys gaming, and when I play games like The Finals these days I disable chat/voice because most people are assholes. Game previously didn't have chat and enabling that turned it from what felt like a wholesome community because I wasn't exposed to their thoughts to it breaking the illusion when they were able to express themselves.

I think this is more a more broad societal issue and a worrying one of being shown what people truly think. Even a minority is a huge amount when the population is billions, so a lot of damage can be done. Games is just another avenue they choose to be toxic in along side other vehicles provided to communicate their thoughts.

[-] FIST_FILLET@lemmy.ml 7 points 1 day ago

i’m sorry that you have to deal with the outfall of this, OP. gamers are notoriously the most overly sensitive group to generalize, even when they’re meant to think “i recognize that this is pointing out bad apples in my community”. instead, they immediately start defending themselves as if you specifically named them

the sane response is to go “wow that is awful. the gaming community does indeed contain some terrible people, i am glad to be one of the good ones and will distance myself from this behavior”

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[-] marcie@lemmy.ml -2 points 23 hours ago

the boob jiggle physics are genuinely ridiculous on this mod, i just watched the preview. gamers are brain broken

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this post was submitted on 17 Nov 2024
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