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this post was submitted on 14 Aug 2023
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Showerthoughts
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What advantages? If memory serves correctly, they’d need a captain with a penis tattoo that says “welcome aboard” and a radar guy who can imitate whales. I’m not sure that’s so common.
At least as recently as 2005, diesel subs were the quieter option. There was that somewhat notorious story of the Swedish one that beat an American carrier group in a wargame because the Americans just couldn't find it. I'm sure there have been developments in the equipment and methods since then - it was 18 years ago, after all - but it's still notable enough that the Americans leased the sub from Sweden for a couple of years to practice against it.
That said, the Swedish sub in question was packed with cutting-edge (at the time) stealth features. I suspect North Korea's fleet is not.
Lol people hold on to that wargame so tightly as some Pinnacle of triumph over western armed forces, but the reality of the situation was that the sub commander in question went rogue and did something they weren't supposed to do in order to win. Also at the end of the day it's a fucking wargame, it's practice, and nobody really cares how well you do in practice because it's all about how you perform in the big game.
Also as you noted the Americans did what we always do when situations like this happen, we game planned for never letting it happen again, this was an embarrassment for the US Navy, and you can bet it's something they're constantly working on never letting happen again, these are serious professionals who's lives revolve around continuously planning ways to win against any situation while losing as few of their people as possible.
It sounds like the wargame did exactly what it was supposed to, people learned. All this talk of “embarrassment” is silly.
You do realize that's almost 20 years ago. That's like saying "well you realize in 1985..." Back in 2005.
(The 2000s have been a blur for me time wise too)
I did specifically say "it was 18 years ago after all"
If I'm not mistaken, that was a Gotland Class. Built in the early 90s, so over 30 years old.
France has at least one diesel submarine that's decades more modern.
Thanks for the serious answer even when I was making a stupid joke/reference.
As I replied to someone else, that is very interesting.
My thoughts: It does seem extremely limited for its advantage though. The electric mode is basically a stealth option, but once they fire or do anything else then should be findable and that electric mode probably won’t last THAT long if they were being hunted actively.
Range is infinitesimal comparatively. A nuclear submarine can operate continuously under water for 6 months. An old diesel sub needs to resurface after something like 12-18 hours.
Thanks for answering seriously even when I didn’t.
Interesting that they are quieter! I never would’ve guessed that. Thanks for sharing.
I think the old ones are loud, but newer ones can be really quiet. IRC Sweden had one that did well in war games. Gotland class. France also has really modern ones.
Basically they chugachugachugachuga, then go into battery mode and dissappear off sonar. Range is low obviously. Batteries don't last that long.
Don't think the Russians have those though. Their navy has been a joke for over a century.