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submitted 1 week ago by MicroWave@lemmy.world to c/news@lemmy.world

Summary

Churches across the U.S. are grappling with dwindling attendance and financial instability, forcing many to close or sell properties.

The Diocese of Buffalo has shut down 100 parishes since the 2000s and plans to close 70 more. Nationwide, church membership has dropped from 80% in the 1940s to 45% today.

Some churches repurpose their land to survive, like Atlanta’s First United Methodist Church, which is building affordable housing.

Others, like Calcium Church in New York, make cutbacks to stay open. Leaders warn of the long-term risks of declining community and support for churches.

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[-] Sgt_choke_n_stroke@lemmy.world 28 points 1 week ago

Unfortunately the internet is now the new 3rd space.

Religion advocated for bad policies in government which dug their own grave.

I don't feel bad they're closing down.

[-] queermunist@lemmy.ml 18 points 1 week ago

The internet isn't a third place! Not only do you have to pay to access it, but more importantly, it isn't a physical place. None of us are people here. We're strings of characters on a screen behind pseudo-anonymous handles. You can't help me, I can't help you.

This is not community. It can't be.

[-] NocturnalMorning@lemmy.world 10 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

I think you're a person. You should be more kind to yourself. That kind of talk never gets us anywhere.

[-] queermunist@lemmy.ml -2 points 1 week ago

Not on the internet. I'm a string of characters. I don't have a face, I don't have a voice, I don't have a body, I am a handle and a comment tree. I cease to exist as soon as you aren't paying attention to this comment chain. I could be a bot, you have no idea.

The internet can never be community. We are only human when we do human things. This digital space isn't human at all.

[-] Enkers@sh.itjust.works 13 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

I mean, why are you even here then? Exchanging information IS a human thing, and we're (probably) all people behind the screens. I agree that physicality is a necessity for a 3rd space, but I disagree that it's necessary for community.

To say that we can't help people with our words strikes me as rather pessimistic.

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[-] NocturnalMorning@lemmy.world 10 points 1 week ago

Tell that to the numerous thriving online communities.

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[-] Sir_Kevin@lemmy.dbzer0.com 9 points 1 week ago

The internet can never be community.

Bullshit. There are millions of communities on the internet. Maybe not the kind of communities you personally want, but communities just the same. Don't gatekeep how others interact with different social groups.

Also there are countless communities that exist both online and in meatspace. You can enjoy people in the real world, go home and resume those connections via internet with the same people. Those people don't cease to exist when they're not physically standing in front of you.

These are not just letters on a screen. They were put here by a human being named Kevin. I have an entire life, history, interpersonal connections, my own thoughts and feelings. Tomorrow you will likely see more things that I write along with everyone else who's part of This community.

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[-] jrs100000@lemmy.world 5 points 1 week ago

Sorry, Im pretty sure thats all were likely to get. The way things are going well be lucky to have public schools in 20 years, let alone a bunch of new publicly funded community spaces.

[-] TachyonTele@lemm.ee 5 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

Another brilliant take from someone on .ml

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[-] captainlezbian@lemmy.world 2 points 1 week ago

The internet can form community but it's not the same. I'm about to move across the country and crash with a friend I met through the internet; and I've only seen her irl twice. That whole friend group are some of my best friends. And they aren't even the only close friendships I have through the internet.

But also, I've done the only socialize online thing and it broke my mind in college and again in the pandemic (which is when I met both friend groups I mentioned earlier). I need physical places where I can interact positively with other physical humans. I need physical places that I can coexist with other people and that's what an actual third space is. And I've seen what only existing on the internet does to people and it's not good

[-] queermunist@lemmy.ml 0 points 1 week ago

Yes yes thank you, this is what I meant. I know I pissed a lot of people off by saying that internet communities aren't real, but what I meant is that they aren't a replacement for community. The distance, the lag, the lack of a face or voice or body, the time zones, there's so many elements that make internet "community" into something that I struggle to call community.

If people want to call it community then fine, but it's not a neighborhood or a workplace or (in the earlier example) congregation.

[-] chirospasm@lemmy.ml 5 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

I know you're getting dragged in the comments / downvoted, but the premise that the internet is not a fully reasonable 'third' place has some rationality, as does the premise that churches have been this 'third' place for many. And I think 'third' places are where leftist community-engagement thrives, even in religous settings.

I mention leftist simply because many here are commenting from leftist Lemmy instances, myself included. Historically -- and for a moment, consider this outside the typically nonreligious, leftist approaches to community building -- churches have occupied a helpful, physical 'third' place like this for centuries.

When they are healthy, churches have been relationship hubs of solidarity and mutual aid. They have also been regularly used platforms from which to mobilize for social justice and collective action -- even today, I know of some churches that are engaged directly in social justice and collective action for queer communities, debt reduction / removal, resource sharing, and more. Liberation theology is gravely leftist, as well, and comes from Latin American churches with leftist clergy and non-clergy at the helm of both theory and praxis. The Civil Rights Movement was borne out of black American churches, and suffrage movements met in churchhouses as much as anywhere else. This list goes on.

Liberation / radical inclusivity activities can spring from any setting where people gather regularly and talk about change. While the internet can make that sometimes easier, it has been historically in-person, where folks gather, that these movements find momentum time and again. 'Third' places are historically and functionally physical.

Theory is great for the internet, and even some community-engagement through internet discussions on theory is great. Some, but not all.

Praxis happens offline, though, in anti-technofeudally controlled arenas. And the context shouldn't matter -- religious or not.

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[-] TheTechnician27@lemmy.world 5 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

A third place has nothing at all to do with what is and isn't paywalled. If I rented a Boeing 787 to take day trips with my friends every day for the next month, that'd still be a third place. It has everything to do with the first place being home and the second being work. It also has nothing, therefore, to do with "community" or "not community".

Even if we work under your (completely wrong) definition of third places as inherently fostering tight-knit community and not just being a place for you to exist around other people, smaller communities absolutely have the opportunity to do this. Roblox was one of my main third places when I was a kid, and it was a better third place than I could've had in real life. I met actual, real friends who I talked to daily for years and who accepted me. Right now I work on Wikipedia, which if you spend long enough there unambiguously has a community among the more experienced editors. I'm even in a Discord server where I joined for the project, ended up joining the team, and now feel like I'm good friends with the people there. Even Lemmy I'd say is small enough to start seeing a lot of familiar faces over time.

The Internet isn't inherently bad at fostering community. It's just that the modern Internet places a fuckload of emphasis on being in gigantic, uninteractive pools of people like Twitch chats that fly at a million miles a second and require you to spend $500 for a streamer to blink in your direction; a shitty short-form video service where you can comment and like but aren't seriously befriending anyone outside of extreme edge cases; a gigantic link aggregator where what you say is almost always drowned out immediately; multiplayer games that have new lobbies every match; etc.

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[-] Stovetop@lemmy.world 5 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

I think it counts as a third place. All it really takes to be a third place is not being home or work. Whether physical or not is definitely debatable and I think physical third places are a must, but I don't think a third place being paid disqualifies it.

For one, a lot of folks don't have to pay for internet. I can go to my local library or community center and be online if needed. There are also some government programs that may provide free internet. But even if it is paid, typical third places have traditionally included settings like cafes, bars, the gym, bookstores, theaters, etc. which are also all pay-to-use environments.

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[-] UltraGiGaGigantic@lemmy.ml 3 points 1 week ago

Of course there are no people online. We're all dogs using the internet while the humans are at work.

Yall are dogs to right?

[-] Sgt_choke_n_stroke@lemmy.world 2 points 1 week ago

You pay for nearly every third space.

Bars,bowling alleys, sports leagues, internet, and even churches.

In every space you are a name with a personality

this post was submitted on 29 Dec 2024
696 points (98.7% liked)

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