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this post was submitted on 17 Aug 2023
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Did anyone read the article? It’s not saying ever you guys think it’s saying. The DC Democrats are saying that in two predominantly black areas, having voters pick two choices on ballots has already led to confusion and that ranked choice will lead to even worse confusion.
They’re not speculating here, they’re describing what’s already known.
I was fully ready to be skeptical about these comments, and to agree with you. But I read the article and nowhere does it make the situation any better than the headline.
The fact that certain districts (black and low income) undervote doesn't itself justify the suit to prevent ranked choice voting. In fact, nowhere in the article is there an explanation by anyone why ranked choice voting would be worse for these groups, just that it would be confusing.
Yes, changing things can be confusing. People will get over it and learn. It's definitely not exactly a good progressive look for democrats to be arguing, "oh, it's hard for people to learn a new way, so the old way is better." Kind of the opposite of what democratic voters are looking for.
Uh, being confusing is what would make it worse.
I'm not saying that they're right or wrong. What I'm saying is that the reactions in this comment section of people saying "oh the racist Democrats think black people are too dumb to understand ranked choice" is a complete misrepresentation. The Democrats are saying that the evidence has shown that people in these low-income, predominantly black areas, under-voted when expected to choose two candidates on a ballot, and they're concerned that this will be an even worse problem on a ranked choice ballot where people may be expected to choose up to 5 candidates.
Disenfranchisement of poor and minority voters should be a concern.
No no, I get it. What I don't see - and what would be the most important thing to justify a lawsuit - is why preventing a permanent, better representation selection system isn't a greater impediment to voting rights than temporary confusion.
The justification for the lawsuit here is basically, "Evidence - real evidence! - shows certain people are confused when we fix the broken system, so let's ditch the fix and keep that system." You're focusing on the "evidence" part of that, when the logic itself is what's more seriously flawed.
There are so many less restrictive, less regressive options. Educate those communities. Clarify on the ballot in big large-type bold, simple language what they're supposed to do. Even before filing a lawsuit, they should have looked into publicly available information to see whether that confusion actually resulted in electoral result defects. Right now all we have is that those communities undervote. That's a very thin basis for such extreme action here.
So to be clear, I don't agree with them that this is a good enough reason to block ranked choice voting. All I'm saying here is that the reason for blocking isn't just "hur dur Democrats are racist too", which is the main takeaway of everyone in this comment section.
It's racism point blank, no need to act like these assholes are anything more than that. Democrats are now also trying to pander to some of the racists as Trump has, we need ranked choice now more than ever.
I read the article, and it doesn't change the argument. Undervoting is a problem, but one that doesn't affect ranked choice voting any more than fptp. Voters were able to select two candidates and only voted for one, and probably don't even realize they did not complete their ballot. If anything, a little ballot education outreach that would be necesaary while implementing ranked choice might reduce undervoting overall.
Clarification: low-income voters from predominantly black areas did this, which is effectively disenfranchisement. That's the concern: that low-income minorities may be disenfranchised by more complex/confusing ballots. The concern is real because it already happened.
Yeah, low income correlates with low education and an increase in voter error. That's not a reason to not make the elections more fair or more accurate. It's the opposite of that.
Ranked Choice voters can still select their first and only choice. If there are two spots, there will be two sections to fill out rankings and it will likely result in fewer undervotes.
I share your frustration. I live in ward 6 which shares political influence with ward 7 and 8.
the confusion isn't from the ranked vote as much as the way the ballot is currently arranged.
the ranked choice just happens to be the change used to fix the disenfranchisement and the complaint is that's not enough.
I agree.
Our both choices were not great and having a system where you arent choosing between corporate shill one and two would aid that.... stop apologizing for assholes being racist and power hungry. Black people aren't stupid. Say what you really mean instead of pandering around it....
You guys are exhausting.
No one is saying black people are too dumb to understand ranked choice. They're saying that people from low income, predominantly black areas, under-voted when required to choose two candidates on past ballots. That means those people were effectively disenfranchised. If the evidence shows that ranked choice could potentially disenfranchise people from low-income minority areas, that is something to be concerned about.
That's not a reason good enough to hold back everyone else from the benefits of ranked choice. If they're worried about that alleged potential disenfranchisement then they should get out there and inform those people of how to do it properly. Send out flyers, emails, publish advertisements, knock on doors, etc.
The rest of us are already disenfranchised by these shitty 2-party choices.
I'm not saying that they're right. I'm saying that calling them racists who think black people are dumb is a complete mischaracterization.
No, no one read the article. They're just spouting nonsense.