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How do these Natalists feel about the African continent?

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[-] blarghly@lemmy.world 5 points 1 week ago

Right, but this can be resolved with immigration.

[-] chonglibloodsport@lemmy.world 5 points 1 week ago

Maybe in the west. Not in places like South Korea or Japan. Even if you got the populations to buy in to immigration 100%, you’ve got an impossible task convincing immigrants to learn the language.

English’s hegemony over the world makes immigration to non-English-speaking areas a huge problem. Quebec, for example, tries mightily to force immigrants to learn French and the results are quite ugly in Quebec politics.

[-] Aoife@lemmy.blahaj.zone 4 points 1 week ago

I mean you're presupposing that it's important to convince immigrants to learn the language. Maybe multiculturualism is okay actually

[-] chonglibloodsport@lemmy.world 4 points 1 week ago

Learning the local language is a survival skill. It doesn’t require forgetting your first language nor does it mean the end of your culture.

The issue is that groups of immigrants can form enclaves where they speak their own language but not the local language. This has the effect of making them “second class” and limiting both their economic opportunities and their overall contribution to society.

[-] Whats_your_reasoning@lemmy.world 1 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

The issue is that groups of immigrants can form enclaves where they speak their own language but not the local language. This has the effect of making them “second class” and limiting both their economic opportunities and their overall contribution to society.

This implies that each of us is in charge of whether we are "second class" citizens or not. It's the people in power who control the social structure. They decide what "class" a person is. Immigrants are often attracted to their own communities not just for comfort and familiarity, but also for practical reasons. These communities step in where the government fails to. They help new arrivals find jobs, transport, and places to sleep/live. They enable people to have their basic needs met, in a country run by people who already think that poor immigrants aren't the same class/worthiness as they are.

It doesn't have to be this way. If the people in power gave a shit about the rest of us, if they truly wanted immigrants to thrive, they would build a social structure that actually enables that. Immigrant groups don't inherently limit their own economic opportunities - those limits are created by those who treat them as "less".

One last thing - to say that immigrants' "overall contribution to society" is "limited" by them being in their own communities, implies that any of the work done within those communities doesn't count as "contributing to society." It also implies that the jobs that are usually filled by immigrants, such as crop-picking and other agricultural work, are jobs that don't contribute enough to society. Yet I'd argue such people contribute more than many U.S.-born people I've met.

[-] chonglibloodsport@lemmy.world 1 points 1 week ago

You’ve made a very vague statement without any substance, sorry. “People in power” are not the reason a person who does not speak the language spoken in an office finds it difficult to get a job in that office. Language barriers make communication (and therefore collaboration) difficult or even impossible. It is no one’s fault that language barriers exist but immigrants without the necessary language skills are at a disadvantage.

If there’s anyone to blame, it’s the people in power in the home country of the immigrants who created the conditions where immigration into such a disadvantaged situation is preferable to remaining at home.

[-] InvertedParallax@lemm.ee 3 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

you’ve got an impossible task convincing immigrants to learn the language.

Do we? The languages aren't that hard, people learn languages all the time especially if they move.

Just make it a requirement for citizenship, offer classes, etc. I'm picking up 2 languages right now, 1 for work and 1 for my new home in Europe. The human brain does things.

Quebec, for example, tries mightily to force immigrants to learn French and the results are quite ugly in Quebec politics.

Ok, so I actually speak some french (from school), and that's not about it not being English, it's just that French is a shit language to push for no reason.

Tell Quebec to switch to Spanish, everyone will be happier.

[-] andros_rex@lemmy.world 1 points 1 week ago

If you already know French, can you get an “in” immigration wise?

[-] chonglibloodsport@lemmy.world 3 points 1 week ago

Yeah but no more of an “in” than knowing English. Immigration policy is controlled by the federal government which only cares if you know one of the two official languages of the country (or not).

this post was submitted on 13 Apr 2025
73 points (96.2% liked)

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