268
Car Prices Might Be Unsustainable for Buyers
(www.wsj.com)
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
this post was submitted on 22 Aug 2023
268 points (97.2% liked)
Fuck Cars
9809 readers
79 users here now
This community exists as a sister community/copycat community to the r/fuckcars subreddit.
This community exists for the following reasons:
- to raise awareness around the dangers, inefficiencies and injustice that can come from car dependence.
- to allow a place to discuss and promote more healthy transport methods and ways of living.
You can find the Matrix chat room for this community here.
Rules
-
Be nice to each other. Being aggressive or inflammatory towards other users will get you banned. Name calling or obvious trolling falls under that. Hate cars, hate the system, but not people. While some drivers definitely deserve some hate, most of them didn't choose car-centric life out of free will.
-
No bigotry or hate. Racism, transphobia, misogyny, ableism, homophobia, chauvinism, fat-shaming, body-shaming, stigmatization of people experiencing homeless or substance users, etc. are not tolerated. Don't use slurs. You can laugh at someone's fragile masculinity without associating it with their body. The correlation between car-culture and body weight is not an excuse for fat-shaming.
-
Stay on-topic. Submissions should be on-topic to the externalities of car culture in urban development and communities globally. Posting about alternatives to cars and car culture is fine. Don't post literal car fucking.
-
No traffic violence. Do not post depictions of traffic violence. NSFW or NSFL posts are not allowed. Gawking at crashes is not allowed. Be respectful to people who are a victim of traffic violence or otherwise traumatized by it. News articles about crashes and statistics about traffic violence are allowed. Glorifying traffic violence will get you banned.
-
No reposts. Before sharing, check if your post isn't a repost. Reposts that add something new are fine. Reposts that are sharing content from somewhere else are fine too.
-
No misinformation. Masks and vaccines save lives during a pandemic, climate change is real and anthropogenic - and denial of these and other established facts will get you banned. False or highly speculative titles will get your post deleted.
-
No harassment. Posts that (may) cause harassment, dogpiling or brigading, intentionally or not, will be removed. Please do not post screenshots containing uncensored usernames. Actual harassment, dogpiling or brigading is a bannable offence.
Please report posts and comments that violate our rules.
founded 3 years ago
MODERATORS
There is far, far more lithium in the earth's crust than we will ever need for energy storage. We're only just now hurting for it because Tesla showed that electric cars are feasible as daily drivers which caused a huge surge in demand. We'll catch back up in a few more years. And the third world countries that let shitty mining practices take place are what give it a bad name right now. No one wants child slaves in the Congo to mine cobalt for us so we can drive to work. US mines are being built, new processes are being invented, and new battery chemistries that rely less on rare minerals are constantly being invented and implemented.
You're just being a sourpuss.
source: trust me bro ?
a lithium battery require also cobalt as cathode, it cant solely run on an anode
There are lots of lithium battery types that do not contain any cobalt, such as LFP that is used more and more for electric cars.
Also Sodium Ion (Na-Ion) batteries are currently in production and could be a viable alternative as the technology advances and production ramps up.
Right now Na-Ion batteries rival only the LFP type of Li-Ion battery (lithium-iron-phosphate) having a lower energy density than other Lithium chemistries. LFP is used commonly in utility power storage for its much greater safety and longevity, but it carries about 20% less power for size and weight compared to other lithium chemistries.
At present the favored battery type for EVs are Lithium types with the highest energy density. Some combine several advantages of the various Li-Ion chemistries having the highest energy density with somewhat greater safety and longevity.
Na-Ion is a new type of battery chemistry with lots of potential for improvement. They use more sustainable materials being cheaper and more abundant. If they could get the Na-Ion battery type within range of presently used Lithium technologies it would be a hugely better solution, a lot cheaper, a lot safer, and much easier on the environment.
@rm_dash_r_star @notapantsday Is LMFP actually available in quantity? Wikipedia suggests not.
The problem with sodium ion batteries, apart from lower density, is that they have a shorter lifespan. On the upside they're easier to recycle. IIRC there was some recent research that might fix the lifespan problem.
I realized that, I put an edit on there to not specify LMFP which has only been used in EVs in a limited fashion. I was confusing NMC which is actually the most common, oops. I changed it to a generic reference.
I've read differing reports on that. But yeah, cycle life is a big deal. In general it's not great for the common Li-Ion types. LFP has pretty amazing cycle life, about five times greater and rivals the NiMH king. In many cases it's well worth the additional size and weight, but for things sensitive to it like cars and handheld devices it's a problem.
sodium is just tech bro fluff
@rm_dash_r_star @notapantsday Unfortunately batteries with nickel are still pretty widely used. However it's definitely going in the right direction.
https://www.iea.org/reports/global-ev-outlook-2023/trends-in-batteries
In any case digging up fossil fuels is also pretty dirty, and has been known to pollute indigenous people's drinking water, steal their land, and on occasion pay for private militias and government troops to put down protests.
Obviously electric buses are preferable to electric cars. Public transport is worth investing in.
Also on batteries, iron-air is promising for grid storage, but not likely to be used for vehicles.
There isn't much in industry exempt from that kind of thing, but countries go to war over access to oil. Anything that reduces consumption is good for mankind.
hopefully. still, evs are quite expensive. also the charging infrastrucutre would require a metric fuckton of copper, and that would raise copper prices to silly levels, and its already pricey.
The charging infrastructure needed for the vast majority of BEV drivers, the vast majority of the time, is a power outlet in their garage.
this is not ur average 10 amp gauge cable.
@zoe @ramenbellic Level 1 charging is exactly that. Just a regular plug in to a regular socket. Level 1 charging overnight will fully charge many EVs (enough charge for a week of commuting). The average car sits idle for almost the entire day so slow charging is all most people need.
Exactly, I charge 120v at 8 amps just using a standard outlet in my garage and it generally provides enough charge for my commute and errands. I’ll usually top up at the free L2 at the grocery store while charging, and rely on DCFC for road trips.
Installing a L2 charger in my garage would be a tremendous waste of money and natural resources. The only reason I would consider it is that my utility company offers very cheap Time of Use (overnight) electricity rates (2¢/kWh, vs our normal 15¢/kWh) if we installed a separate, EV charging only meter for the garage.