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this post was submitted on 28 Jun 2025
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There was no consensus on what should be global human rights before 1948 that is correct.
Before that, the only rights you had, were the ones afforded to you by your lord, king, queen, emperor, president, prime minister, etc. For a very long time, all over the world. A lot of people had, literally. No rights at all. They were used, sold, worked, as slaves.
So it's a wonderful thing that a bunch of countries came together and tried their best to determine some basic Human Rights that everyone should adhere to. Being afforded citizenship of the country you're currently inside at the time of birth. Is not one of them.
If you ever bothered to actually look into them. You might find article 15 of interest.
You have the Human Right to belong to a nation. But it does not stipulate which nation. Nor how you acquire the nationality. Some countries have it as the place where you were physically born. Others have it as an extension of your parents nationality.
I could explain this further if you so wish. But I doubt you'd care for it. In any case. What you personally think should and shouldn't be a human right, won't change the status of the actual Human Rights. Just like what you personally think should and shouldn't be legal in your country, won't change the status of the laws currently put in place.
I understand the legal theory of human rights perfectly well, thanks though.
What you seem to be missing is that legality isn't the end of morality, but an agreeable approximation endorsed by a government.
The universal declaration of human rights isn't even that. It doesn't carry the weight of law.
It seems that you're arguing that no one should be denied a nationality, but that no one needs to grant you one. So your right to a nationality can be violated by... No one? Someone has to let you in, but no one in specific is responsible, and you can be stripped of it as long as it's not arbitrary. You have the right to change it, but not to anything in particular. Is that about right?
This is of course ignoring the provision against exile, protection of freedom of movement and residence, or the right to return to your homeland. Although you seem to believe that a right to return to your homeland has no basis in where your homeland actually is.
Interesting. Maybe using a document weighed to be inoffensive to powerful nations shouldn't be taken as the highpoint of morality. It's almost like any statement that might create the connotation of "moral obligation" is couched in layers of exceptions or vagueness.
Did you know the Holocaust was perfectly legal? And, since you say we didn't even have human rights before then, just the whim of the ruler, it wasn't even a human rights violation to gas children and burn their bodies!
Perfectly legal, and hence perfectly moral. Right?
People who can't see the distinction between morality and legality are disgusting.
Would help if you stopped using legal terms to argue moral ones then. Then you wouldn't get people like him arguing with you.
He's right, you are wrong. Full stop. Human rights is a legal term and defined in written word. Your issue is a moral not a legal one. You need to use proper terms and make yourself clear.
Blood right nationality and birth right nationality both are equally legal.
Going from one to the other is perfectly legally fine. Hell it's even morally fine. If anything there is less problems with blood right over birth right. As birth right nationality has frequent issues with births outside of the country, and since fewer countries use birth right it causes even more.
Yes it's all the America's that use it, but that's more a size of land mass not an actual population argument. By number of people, and countries blood right is the common method.
There are clear moral issues with WHY trump is doing this. And being upset at those reasons is perfectly moral. Hell I don't like him doing this either. It's for all the wrong reasons and being done in a fucked up way. But that doesn't mean switching citizenship methodology is bad or wrong would also just be objectively incorrect. It can be done in a perfectly legal AND morally acceptable way.
Trump just of course doesn't care about legal or moral thus the problems.
But humans rights it is not. Stop using a legal term that only quasi is connected to your words. It undermines your own stance. It only makes it hard to actually take you serious. It just makes you come across as trying to cause a panic instead of actually taking a stance.
Citation needed. That's seriously such a preposterous stance that I actually skipped reading your entire response after I got to it.
https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/rights-human/
The concept of human rights and the morality of how those with power act towards those without has been discussed under many names for millennia. It's been discussed under the name "human rights" long before we started using it as a legal term. Hint: where do you think the legal term came from?
Philosophy pertaining to the law is not that same thing as the law.
It's actually in the founding documents of our country that human rights are not defined by the legal system, and that we can only specifically enumerate a subset that we find critically important.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ninth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution
This makes sense because the philosophical works that were inspirational and popular amongst the founders were those of natural rights philosophers of different sorts quite concerned with human rights in general. You can see it in how the preamble is basically a summary of them.
All that aside: being shocked that someone is discussing morality when discussing human rights is naive and a cop out for a shitty opinion.
Alright, I felt bad and went back to try reading. I got to the bit where it seems you think the US only has jus soli citizenship (speaking of needing to use the right term) instead of both "by blood" and "by soil" and stopped again. Supporting both is actually quite easy. Possession of a US birth certificate makes you a citizen. Either parent being a citizen makes you a citizen. More problems arise from "by blood" citizenship, since you need to present the child and proof of parental citizenship before someone with authority to decide if the credentials are valid. A US citizen born abroad results in quite the bundle of paperwork as well as in-person consulate visits. Being born in a US hospital it's a short form where a hospital official affirms where they were born. The rest is just vital records for statistics.