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this post was submitted on 30 Jul 2025
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I know this is going to go against the "everything is terrible" narrative. But unpopular opinion - these people are just dumb. If you are making 150k per year and struggling to pay your bills, then that is your own fault. Live somewhere cheaper. Buy a cheaper car and learn to do your own repairs and maintenance. Cook your own food. Dont rack up credit card debt. And dont have kids if you can't afford them.
I'm sure some people in the comments will all be like "no, no, you dont understand - it's impossible to save money even at $150k incomes!" Bullshit! There are people who manage to get by on minimum wage. Or on $50k per year. Or hell, on $100k per year. I managed to retire at 31 and never broke the six figure mark. Now, I'm a cheap bastard and basically dedicated my life for 8 years to giving my cubical the middle finger - but if it is possible for me to do that, then yes, it is completely possible for people making $150k to not go deep into debt. It is absurd that I have to not only say this, but defend it against delusional doomers who just want to say that literally everything is hopeless and no one can ever get ahead.
Yeah, no. You know all the brand spanking new lifted pavement-princess pickups you see everywhere? Those were bought on credit. You know how DoorDash and McDonalds continue being profitable despite being absurdly expensive these days? They can do that because people keep paying them! Or the shopping malls that continue churning out shit fast fashion clothing that will disintegrate in 6 hours? Lots of them are packed on the weekends!
Straight up: outside of some very unusual circumstances, if you are bringing in $150k and still can't keep up with your bills, You. Are. A. Dumbass.
I agree except the reason they are making $150k is because they aren't living someplace cheaper. Move to cheap rural and there's no job. Companies are forcing back to office even when it makes no sense.
Our housing shortage is a serious issue, and we should work on resolving it.
But at the same time, this is still not a real reason. After all, many people live in these same places with lower wages and still don't go into debt.
Again, there are certainly people out there for whom it truly is not their fault. Like, they're underwater on a house they bought in SF when prices were at their highest and have to stay there to take care of their ailing mother who can only see one specific doctor in the whole country - or whatever. And while these cases are tragic, they are not the majority.
The majority of these cases are going to be people who made a conscious choice to live beyond their means, who are unwilling to tighten their belts and give up their luxurious lifestyles. Yes, there are outliers. But most of these people are, like, suburban moms working as project managers in Omaha who are driving their new Buicks to Starbucks every morning. Sorry, but I don't have sympathy for these people. Buy a used Toyota and brew your own coffee, it's not that hard!
@blarghly @miss_demeanour This kind of animosity within the working classes (including the relatively privileged middle class) is exactly what the oligarchs want. If you're busy casting aspersions at couples earning $75k each in New York City who probably don't own a car much less a pavement princess and are struggling to
keep up with the bills their parents were easily able to afford, you're looking away from how a handful of billionaires are dismantling the country and trashing the planet.
I don't think @blarghly@lemmy.world is expressing animosity so much as frustration. These people's lack of financial resiliency is why they can't afford to have class solidarity. If everyone was a FIRE sort of person like blarghly (full disclosure: and me), then things like general strikes would become much more feasible.
I don't think the oligarchs even think about us that much.
Anyway, you are doing the thing where you make up a sympathetic scenario to excuse people for being terrible at personal finance. I'm not saying outliers don't exist. And I'm not saying that increased income inequality and the diminishment of the middle class isn't a problem. I'm just saying, jesus fucking christ, admit when people could improve their circumstances by just making better choices.
@blarghly @miss_demeanour Certainly there are many examples of middle class people who are living beyond their means and the planet's at the same time, but their overconsumption is child's play in the grand scheme of things. We can encourage people to consume less (I certainly share your disgust with car/monster truck culture, fast fashion and fast food) without insisting anyone struggling in this shit society is a dumbass.
https://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2012/01/13/the-shockingly-simple-math-behind-early-retirement/
TL;DR: have a very high savings rate. For example, if you can cut your spending to 1/3 of your income, you can retire in about 10 years.
Long ago, there were two brothers who grew up side by side in a small villiage, wishing for something more. The elder brother left home first, recieved good schooling, and became a high-ranking bureaucrat for the king. He wore the finest robes, lived in a great house, and had many men to do his bidding, though his brow was furrowed with worry and frustration. Many years after he'd left home, now fat and with the first streaks of grey in his hair, the elder brother happened upon a monk sitting beneath a tree on the outskirts of the city. The monk sat next to his bedroll, his clothes in tatters - but the bureaucrat was shocked when he saw the monk was his own brother, who seemed to have barely aged over the many years since they'd last met. "Brother!" the aged bureaucrat exclaimed, "oh how many years since I've seen you! And to find you in such a wreched state! How have you come to be here?" The younger brother replied, smiling - "why, brother, I walked here. I carry my bed roll and my rice, and where ever I find myself where the sun sets, that is my home." The elder started, confused, and said "My brother, truly you must turn your life around and rise above this terrible existence you have found yourself in. Why, just follow my example - if you learned to serve the king, you would not need to live on mere rice!" The younger replied with a cheerful smile, "Ah, but brother, if you learned to live on mere rice, you would not need to serve the king."
I recommend the book Early Retirement Extreme, and the Mr Money Mustache blog.
real life is not an adventure game, bro. i see what your koan implies but you're just being an asshole by responding like this.
Eh, I read the little parable when I was a teenager or something, and that is essentially what led me down the path I followed. Figured it might be helpful to others.
the problem with using buddhist koans in the current year is that the main users of them today are andrew tate and his cadre.
Well... fuck those guys. I'm gonna keep using my parable. There are nazi punks. I'm not gonna stop listening to punk music just because some nazis like it.
Also, that wasnt a koan, btw. Koans are paradoxical riddles.
while i do appreciate the "why should i change, he's the one who sucks", you gotta think about the optics at least some of the time. if you have to explain it every time, how many people do you think left before you had the chance because of first impressions? people who have had enough bad experiences to not want to take the risk?
koans can also be fables, ending on a vagueness designed to be meditated upon in order to learn a lesson.