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What are your opinions on the future of back-end web development? Is the Java ecosystem going to wither away as more modern and better solutions are emerging and maturing?

If so, which language/framework and/or programming paradigm do you think will become the new dominant player and how soon?

Personally I would love to see Rust becoming a new standard, it's a pleasure to write and has a rapidly growing ecosystem, I don't think it's far away from overtaking Java. The biggest hurdle imo is big corporations taking a pretty big risk by choosing a relatively new language that's harder to learn compared to what has been the standard for decades.

Playing it safe means you minimize surprises and have a very large amount of people that are already experts in the language.

Taking the risk will definitely improve a lot of things given that you find enough people that know or are willing to learn Rust, but it also means that you're trading off Java flaws with Rust flaws. That's the case however with every big change, and Java flaws are a good enough reason to make a big change.

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[-] lysdexic@programming.dev 37 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Java gets a bad reputation from proponents of FOMO/fad-driven development, but the whole Java ecosystem was built for the web. Anyone is hard-pressed to find a better tech stack than Java-based frameworks without resorting to hand waving and passing personal opinions as facts.

I love C# and the whole .NET Core ecosystem, but even I have to admit it's very hard to argue against java.

[-] TehPers@beehaw.org 19 points 1 year ago

fad-driven development

This is certainly a way to dismiss all other programming paradigms, I suppose. Also, having used both C# and Java, I can't see myself writing another backend in Java again when C# is such a pleasant language to write in. Both languages have flaws of course, but I find C#'s significantly more tolerable than Java's.

[-] sirdorius@programming.dev 16 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Exactly. The only reason Java is remotely tolerable today is because of influences from those 'fad' languages. Kotlin and Scala were also fads when they came out, they just got adopted because Java was utter shit at the time. Hell, even Java was a fad at some point in time.

[-] agilob@programming.dev 1 points 1 year ago
[-] sirdorius@programming.dev 1 points 1 year ago

Apparently I used it at its peak. It was the go to language for big data processing at the time

[-] agilob@programming.dev 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

We had developers leave my company because they had to work with scala during 2 -> 3 migration. Everybody hates it now

[-] sirdorius@programming.dev 1 points 1 year ago

I never used Scala 3 but was under the impression that the migration wasn't as bad as Python 2->3 https://lichess.org/@/thibault/blog/lichess--scala-3/y1sbYzJX

[-] agilob@programming.dev 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

This better shows what migration is like https://docs.scala-lang.org/scala3/guides/migration/incompat-syntactic.html

More, new brackets near lambdas, new string formatting, indentiation change. Doesn't look much, but absolute madness when your team is weak in Scala. Only 1 dev had prior scala experience, but whole team had to be involved in migration of breaking changes in scala syntax behavior and... same for gatling. Also changes in syntax. Mid-level dev left the company because of it, we very soon completely got rid of scala and replaced it with TS and Go. Both languages new to the team, but 0 complaints since February.

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this post was submitted on 25 Aug 2023
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