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meshtastic should not be used for protest communications
(hexbear.net)
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this post was submitted on 13 Aug 2025
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I think peak security protest communications are either runners operating off of memory, or GrapheneOS phones w/ airplane mode ( sixth paragraph) running Briar (which can do direct internet-less communication).
This is a pretty good setup just by using what you have on hand (Most people have a phone altho maybe not one that can run graphene or use briar since its android only.) But if your able to spend like 20$ each you can get handheld Baofeng radios the size of a walkie talkie with a range of like 1-2 miles line of sight. Then if your in a city have one group member sit on a publically accessible roof, or high up floor of a building, and relay messages to other people around the area.
Only downside is radios aren't somethng everyone will have so you'll wanna keep it concealed when around police. But on the plus side they carry 0 data. So if you do get arrested the radios will not have a log of all communications saved on them. They'd have to be monitoring it in real time, and know who each person is by their voice. Which is a lot harder to do then getting a chat log with each message IDed to a user.
If you use a radio, the police will know everything that's being said. We know from the right-wing Oregon militia occupation that the police are monitoring, they are recording, and they can defeat even most encrypted radios (P25, DMR, etc.).
I think I'd prefer e2ee lock-screened apps, even if you have to do it with Signal over cellular. Phones (unfortunately) provide an unmatched balance of usability and security.
Yes they will thats true. That doesnt really matter for a lot of stuff. For example you use it to update everyone on what's going around in different areas. The police already know this information. Them hearing it doesnt change anything.
Phones are a liability in ways radios are not. Unless your using a phone that is used only for this protest and then discarded the IMEI can be tracked and it is forever linked to that protest. If its ever used in a way that identifies it as yours afterwards then you are now also linked to that protest. Also if your phone is taken it could potentially be a treasure trove of information on you and anyone you know. Which they can use to bring criminal charges in many cases over pointless bs. A radio doesnt have internal storage of anything sensetive.
Phones can also be highjacked by stingray devices remotely and all traffic monitored. e2ee helps but they can still track your device, sim card, etc.
As for how to communicate without the police knowing what your saying in a radio. Designate meeting areas, and landmarks prior to the protest with code names.
Mcdonalds can be Katy Perrys House for example. On the radio say "Guys lets meet up at Katy Perrys house." The police have no idea what that means.
There is no need for fancy encrypted radio. Coded language like this works just fine, and cant be deciphered easily.
Heres an example. You are out at a protest when you see a big line of riot troops coming toward you. You get out your radio and say "Cops incoming lets all head back to the eggplant factory."
Someone gets hurt and needs help. "I sprained my ankle im 500 feet south of Hillarys emails can someone cone get me?"
cops will hear that, but its gonna mean absolutely nothing to them. All they know is your leaving, or someone got hurt. In a crowd of thousands thats close to useless.
its quite a bit of effort to come up with such coded language ahead of time and get everyone to remember it in a high stress situation without it also being decipherable, IMO. But I agree it has its uses.
but if you're forgoing security anyhow, you could do the same with meshtastic and instead of a person on a roof it could just be a node on the roof, or in a tree, or routed via existing mesh infrastructure (many cities have quite a few nodes already). And that would have significantly more security than a walkie, even if its still vastly insufficient. especially with standalone lora mesh devices, which often dont have persistent storage of messages, or with some firmware modifications to make them more secure, it could be halfway decent.
I have mixed feelings about the practicality of either option really but I think radios stick out more in a crowd, and so does a person on a roof
So for the person on a roof this would depend entirely on the roof your on. If you find a rooftop resturant and simply order lunch there your good to go for example. Looks totally normal. The radios would need to be concealed yes, but theyre not that big. You could fit them in a backpack, or inside pocket of a jacket.
I think it's best used for like a small group of well organized people who manage comms. Like get 5-6 people spread them around the area evenly, and let them be peoples go to for communicating with the rest of the group. Rather than everyone having one. Then you rely on just word of mouth when in the local group. Or you could combine the radios with the briar setup. You send a message over the radio, it gets to all the other radio holders with 1-2 miles, then you use briar to disperse it locally among the crowds.
Hiding a few radios in a big crowd is easy, and having only 5-6 people who need to know the coded language makes it easier too.
How is a Baofeng radio different from a walkie talkie?
Your typical walkie talkie is going to be much lower quality and lower range, and has a lot less features. Theyre built to be toys where as the Baofengs are built as actual radios. Have access to more frequencies too. Its like a real smart phone vs a toy phone you get a kid.
So is Baofeng a high quality brand of walkie talkie or is there something fundamentally different with how it modulates radio signals?
I associate the phrase "walkie talkie" with decent quality Motorola equipment used on job sites as well as toy tier $10 walmart devices.
No i was talking about the toy ones. Handheld radios vs walkie talkie toys. Baofeng is a very well known and affordable brand. And a lot of their devices are jail breakable which is nice. They arent top of the line, but for 20$ i doubt you could find better. Even many that are 50$+ are pretty similar.
Good to know, thanks! Will definitely consider them
np also look into liscensing in your local area. You can usually buy them regardless, but you are technically supposed to have a license to use them. Altho i don't think they really enforce it unless you do something bad atleast for GMRS. Ham tho you'll get people removed at you about it on the radio if they hear you. Theres a lot of hobbyist hams who monitor their local areas traffic. The jailbroken Baofeng UV-5R is the really well known one like people will use it to talk on drive thru speakers and stuff. I've picked up like planes and stuff flying overhead on mine talking to ATC because im within like 30 miles of an airport. Normally if i see a plane flying above me and pull it out i can find them, and listen in which is pretty fun when im bored lol.
Edit: To be clear about licensing.
GMRS: You need to pay like a 60$ fee online, and get one to broadcast. Technically anyway in the US. Your probably not gonna get bothered about it tho unless ur doing something annoying. Listening you can do without one. Just broadcasting you need it.
Ham: You have to take a knowledge test, and need to pay aswell. I havent done it so don't know the whole process but its more involved for sure. On this you will get the Ham hobbyists removed at you and thats about it if you don't have one, and are just minding your business. But they can potentially triangulate your location and report you if they want to. Not that I've heard of anyone getting in trouble for it who wasn't causing an issue. Once again Listening to it you can do without one.
Using what? Bluetooth? Might as well just whisper into the persons ear.
you can do offline wifi hotspots too. also, they can connect together in a mesh network, where contacts in range can forward to contacts out of range over various mediums, so bluetooth isn't limited by it's range.
also you can sneakernet messages with removable drives.
also also, usability and security are often in contradiction. all too much is done on WhatsApp, Telegram, and even normal social media.