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[-] TubularTittyFrog@lemmy.world 0 points 4 days ago

I'm sure the Tibetans and the Uyghurs agree with you too. The CPC enjoys their popular support too, even as it genocides their cultures in favor of the Han Chinese.

All that evidence of violence, oppression, and sterilization is just fake news bro! CPC is clearly just doing them a huge favor!

[-] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 1 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago)

Uyghurs are not being tortured, sterilized, genocided, etc. Neither are Tibetans. Those claims originate entirely from Adrian Zenz, a US State Department-funded Christian Nationalist for the Victims of Communism Memorial Foundation, itself a propaganda org.

The best and most comprehensive resource I have seen so far is Qiao Collective's Xinjiang: A Resource and Report Compilation. Qiao Collective is explicitly pro-PRC, but this is an extremely comprehensive write-up of the entire background of the events, the timeline of reports, and real and fake claims.

I also recommend reading the UN report and China's response to it. These are the most relevant accusations and responses without delving into straight up fantasy like Adrian Zenz, professional propagandist for the Victims of Communism Foundation, does.

Tourists do go to Xinjiang all the time, as well. You can watch videos like this one on YouTube, though it obviously isn't going to be a comprehensive view of a complex situation like this.

Tibet was a feudal slave society backed by the CIA. The PLA liberated Tibet.

Two excerpts from Friendly Feudalism: The Tibet Myth:

Drepung monastery was one of the biggest landowners in the world, with its 185 manors, 25,000 serfs, 300 great pastures, and 16,000 herdsmen. The wealth of the monasteries rested in the hands of small numbers of high-ranking lamas. Most ordinary monks lived modestly and had no direct access to great wealth. The Dalai Lama himself “lived richly in the 1000-room, 14-story Potala Palace.” [12]

Secular leaders also did well. A notable example was the commander-in-chief of the Tibetan army, a member of the Dalai Lama’s lay Cabinet, who owned 4,000 square kilometers of land and 3,500 serfs. [13] Old Tibet has been misrepresented by some Western admirers as “a nation that required no police force because its people voluntarily observed the laws of karma.” [14] In fact it had a professional army, albeit a small one, that served mainly as a gendarmerie for the landlords to keep order, protect their property, and hunt down runaway serfs.

Young Tibetan boys were regularly taken from their peasant families and brought into the monasteries to be trained as monks. Once there, they were bonded for life. Tashì-Tsering, a monk, reports that it was common for peasant children to be sexually mistreated in the monasteries. He himself was a victim of repeatedremoved, beginning at age nine. [15] The monastic estates also conscripted children for lifelong servitude as domestics, dance performers, and soldiers.

In old Tibet there were small numbers of farmers who subsisted as a kind of free peasantry, and perhaps an additional 10,000 people who composed the “middle-class” families of merchants, shopkeepers, and small traders. Thousands of others were beggars. There also were slaves, usually domestic servants, who owned nothing. Their offspring were born into slavery. [16] The majority of the rural population were serfs. Treated little better than slaves, the serfs went without schooling or medical care. They were under a lifetime bond to work the lord’s land — or the monastery’s land — without pay, to repair the lord’s houses, transport his crops, and collect his firewood. They were also expected to provide carrying animals and transportation on demand. [17] Their masters told them what crops to grow and what animals to raise. They could not get married without the consent of their lord or lama. And they might easily be separated from their families should their owners lease them out to work in a distant location. [18]

As in a free labor system and unlike slavery, the overlords had no responsibility for the serf’s maintenance and no direct interest in his or her survival as an expensive piece of property. The serfs had to support themselves. Yet as in a slave system, they were bound to their masters, guaranteeing a fixed and permanent workforce that could neither organize nor strike nor freely depart as might laborers in a market context. The overlords had the best of both worlds.

One 22-year old woman, herself a runaway serf, reports: “Pretty serf girls were usually taken by the owner as house servants and used as he wished”; they “were just slaves without rights.” [19] Serfs needed permission to go anywhere. Landowners had legal authority to capture those who tried to flee. One 24-year old runaway welcomed the Chinese intervention as a “liberation.” He testified that under serfdom he was subjected to incessant toil, hunger, and cold. After his third failed escape, he was merciless beaten by the landlord’s men until blood poured from his nose and mouth. They then poured alcohol and caustic soda on his wounds to increase the pain, he claimed. [20]

The serfs were taxed upon getting married, taxed for the birth of each child and for every death in the family. They were taxed for planting a tree in their yard and for keeping animals. They were taxed for religious festivals and for public dancing and drumming, for being sent to prison and upon being released. Those who could not find work were taxed for being unemployed, and if they traveled to another village in search of work, they paid a passage tax. When people could not pay, the monasteries lent them money at 20 to 50 percent interest. Some debts were handed down from father to son to grandson. Debtors who could not meet their obligations risked being cast into slavery. [21]

The theocracy’s religious teachings buttressed its class order. The poor and afflicted were taught that they had brought their troubles upon themselves because of their wicked ways in previous lives. Hence they had to accept the misery of their present existence as a karmic atonement and in anticipation that their lot would improve in their next lifetime. The rich and powerful treated their good fortune as a reward for, and tangible evidence of, virtue in past and present lives.

Selection two, shorter: (CW sexual violence and mutilation)

The Tibetan serfs were something more than superstitious victims, blind to their own oppression. As we have seen, some ran away; others openly resisted, sometimes suffering dire consequences. In feudal Tibet, torture and mutilation — including eye gouging, the pulling out of tongues, hamstringing, and amputation — were favored punishments inflicted upon thieves, and runaway or resistant serfs. [22]

Journeying through Tibet in the 1960s, Stuart and Roma Gelder interviewed a former serf, Tsereh Wang Tuei, who had stolen two sheep belonging to a monastery. For this he had both his eyes gouged out and his hand mutilated beyond use. He explains that he no longer is a Buddhist: “When a holy lama told them to blind me I thought there was no good in religion.” [23] Since it was against Buddhist teachings to take human life, some offenders were severely lashed and then “left to God” in the freezing night to die. “The parallels between Tibet and medieval Europe are striking,” concludes Tom Grunfeld in his book on Tibet. [24]

In 1959, Anna Louise Strong visited an exhibition of torture equipment that had been used by the Tibetan overlords. There were handcuffs of all sizes, including small ones for children, and instruments for cutting off noses and ears, gouging out eyes, breaking off hands, and hamstringing legs. There were hot brands, whips, and special implements for disemboweling. The exhibition presented photographs and testimonies of victims who had been blinded or crippled or suffered amputations for thievery. There was the shepherd whose master owed him a reimbursement in yuan and wheat but refused to pay. So he took one of the master’s cows; for this he had his hands severed. Another herdsman, who opposed having his wife taken from him by his lord, had his hands broken off. There were pictures of Communist activists with noses and upper lips cut off, and a woman who wasremovedd and then had her nose sliced away. [25]

Earlier visitors to Tibet commented on the theocratic despotism. In 1895, an Englishman, Dr. A. L. Waddell, wrote that the populace was under the “intolerable tyranny of monks” and the devil superstitions they had fashioned to terrorize the people. In 1904 Perceval Landon described the Dalai Lama’s rule as “an engine of oppression.” At about that time, another English traveler, Captain W. F. T. O’Connor, observed that “the great landowners and the priests… exercise each in their own dominion a despotic power from which there is no appeal,” while the people are “oppressed by the most monstrous growth of monasticism and priest-craft.” Tibetan rulers “invented degrading legends and stimulated a spirit of superstition” among the common people. In 1937, another visitor, Spencer Chapman, wrote, “The Lamaist monk does not spend his time in ministering to the people or educating them. […] The beggar beside the road is nothing to the monk. Knowledge is the jealously guarded prerogative of the monasteries and is used to increase their influence and wealth.” [26] As much as we might wish otherwise, feudal theocratic Tibet was a far cry from the romanticized Shangri-La so enthusiastically nurtured by Buddhism’s western proselytes.

-Dr. Michael Parenti

Overall, again, you have no evidence here either. You have blood libel, and don't dare link any of it because you want plausible deniability. You're doing the same thing the west does in saying there's "white genocide" in South Africa, or "christian genocide" in Nigeria, or that Saddam's forces took babies out of incubators and left them on the floor, or that Hamas sexually assaulted babies. You're repeating western atrocity proaganda.

[-] TubularTittyFrog@lemmy.world -1 points 4 days ago

everything is propaganda if it disagrees with your narrative. nobody's reality other than the reality the CPC tells you is real, is real.

I fully understand. thank you for re-educating me. I will now move to china and be liberated from my evil democratic notions that are oppressing me.

[-] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 1 points 4 days ago

My "narrative" is for truth and the liberation of the working classes. You quite literally gave not a single shred of evidence, repeating claims akin to saying South Africa is committing "white genocide." My source of truth isn't whatever the CPC says, dogmatically, the CPC was incredibly wrong for supporting Cambodia over Vietnam, as an example. Again, all you have is blood libel and a refusal to take accountability.

[-] TubularTittyFrog@lemmy.world 0 points 4 days ago

Oh so the CPC is wrong for someone else's genocide, but when they do it, it's cool?

[-] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 1 points 4 days ago

No? The CPC isn't committing genocide. I quite clearly gave you an example of a fundamental error by the CPC to disprove your notion that I accept whatever the CPC does, and now you're saying that that's more evidence of only accepting the CPC?

During the cold war, the anticommunist ideological framework could transform any data about existing communist societies into hostile evidence. If the Soviets refused to negotiate a point, they were intransigent and belligerent; if they appeared willing to make concessions, this was but a skillful ploy to put us off our guard. By opposing arms limitations, they would have demonstrated their aggressive intent; but when in fact they supported most armament treaties, it was because they were mendacious and manipulative. If the churches in the USSR were empty, this demonstrated that religion was suppressed; but if the churches were full, this meant the people were rejecting the regime's atheistic ideology. If the workers went on strike (as happened on infrequent occasions), this was evidence of their alienation from the collectivist system; if they didn't go on strike, this was because they were intimidated and lacked freedom. A scarcity of consumer goods demonstrated the failure of the economic system; an improvement in consumer supplies meant only that the leaders were attempting to placate a restive population and so maintain a firmer hold over them. If communists in the United States played an important role struggling for the rights of workers, the poor, African-Americans, women, and others, this was only their guileful way of gathering support among disfranchised groups and gaining power for themselves. How one gained power by fighting for the rights of powerless groups was never explained. What we are dealing with is a nonfalsifiable orthodoxy, so assiduously marketed by the ruling interests that it affected people across the entire political spectrum.

[-] TubularTittyFrog@lemmy.world -1 points 4 days ago

What kind of drugs do you do? I need some of this 'true belief' shit you are smoking.

[-] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 1 points 4 days ago

No drugs, other than caffeine and occasionally ibuprofen, and a drink once or twice a month. I do take creatine when I work out, but that's a supplement, not a drug. I don't know what you mean by "true belief," but you've posted precisely 0 sources and ignored mountains of evidence contrary to your own fantasy-level blood libel.

[-] TubularTittyFrog@lemmy.world 0 points 4 days ago

according to you any evidence i present is false because i present it. and according to you any evidence you present is true because you present it.

weird how that works.

[-] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 1 points 4 days ago

No? You haven't presented any evidence whatsoever. If you actually posted evidence, or meaningfully contested the evidence I presented without making up conspiracy theories, then we could have a discussion. It isn't true because I link it or false because you do, I'm the only one presenting evidence while you've ignored it.

[-] TubularTittyFrog@lemmy.world -1 points 4 days ago

you are just quoting propaganda. repeatedly. and claiming it's evidence.

then when i claim something as evidence, you claim it's propaganda, not evidence.

and around and around we go.

[-] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 0 points 4 days ago

No? I cited a broad variety of academic scholarship and primary sources, you never linked any sources to begin with.

[-] Edie@lemmy.ml 1 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago)

No no, see, they did make a bunch of claims as evidence. They may not have provided any sources for those claims and haven't proven those claims true. But they did provide a lot of claims and say that it is evidence of something.

That we require it to be more rigorous than that is not their problem

[-] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 1 points 4 days ago

I was genuinely hoping they weren't saying their claims were evidence, but I fear you're 100% correct here.

this post was submitted on 30 Jan 2026
370 points (90.9% liked)

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