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this post was submitted on 01 May 2026
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Why is rust-less a requirement for you?
I'm not OP but maybe it's not specifically rust that's the problem but the fact that uutils is not actually a fully compatible replacement yet and he just wants gnutils
"iNtErNeT sAy RuSt bAd."
Could be because of how hard Rust is being pushed.
Just like how Wayland is being pushed. And systemd is being pushed.
Alternatives to the Hotness™ are good. Programming language diversity is good.
Is C good? Well, it's good at being simple to compile and at being low-level, but beyond that, nah not really. But is it better than Rust? IMO yeah. (But more for cultural reasons than for technical ones.)
Most coreutils stuff could honestly probably do really well written in Perl, too, with how string-processing-focused they are. String processing is like Perl's whole schtick. Where's our Perl coreutils implementation then!
-- Frost
Wdym Wayland is being pushed? As opposed to x11??
Oh absolutely, 100%.
Have you seen all the people going "Wayland is THE FUTURE!! Get with the times! What do you mean it doesn't work? What do you mean that's by design? Shut up, stop impeding PROGRESS!"? Those people.
If you haven't seen them, yeah, they're a thing.
Its 17 yrs old now, and most wms use it, some don't, but almost all either support it or require it, and the only issues I've had are due to electron not having ozone on by default. I don't think it's progress necessarily, but it's most definitely on par with x11 by now
On par with X11? Have you tried to do anything even slightly "weird"?
It's not on par with X11 and probably never will be, because the Wayland people just go "that's out of scope! beg your DE to implement it!" for EVERYTHING.
KDE only VERY recently got the ability to do custom resolutions, which are absolutely critical if you have a CRT monitor, like one release before they're going to drop X11 completely. I think a few smaller compositors also have a protocol for that, but like, Gnome? Good fucking luck. They HATE features and probably love the fact that they can just refuse to implement basic stuff and leave you with no way to work around them at the X level.
Our vim clipboard support still doesn't work. It's supposed to work (vim says it supports wayland). Guess what, it doesn't.
wl-copy/paste needs to OPEN A WINDOW and take focus to get the clipboard (for... Reasons™... "but SECURITY!"...) and KDE's focus stealing prevention blocked it from taking focus, meaning it would just hang forever until we added a window rule for it.
We still, as far as I know, have no way to disable our PS4 controller's trackpad from working as a trackpad, without affecting the ability to use it in steam input, without affecting other trackpads on the system if there are any. Because "that's weird, who would want that?" and nobody thought to build the tooling to let you do that.
I'm sorry no, that's not a functioning replacement for X11. People SAY it is. That doesn't make it true.
-- Frost
Wayland fixes the screen tearing problem X11 always had. Yes, it is not 100% completed yet but development is going forward. X11 were really hard to work with due to all patching. Security is better with wayland. And no more xorg conf editing. I hate it to increase the mouse wheel speed.
Wait, since when did X11 have a screen tearing problem?
Like yeah, if you're not running a compositor you're gonna get screen tearing unless you turn on TearFree, but a) hey native triple buffered everything! (except on Nvidia because Nvidia doesn't care) and b) all of that is moot if you do run a compositor. That said KWin on X11 has frame pacing issues so disabling its compositing to play games is a good idea. You don't have to do that on Wayland. Also c) games can totally do vsync themselves, can't they?
At least you CAN do xorg.conf stuff. With Wayland, if your DE doesn't provide you a scroll speed slider you're just fucked.
And about "security"... sure, if malicious apps on your system are even part of your threat model in the first place. It makes sense for phones. On desktop though, most malicious stuff is probably confined to your web browser anyway. I'd rather have working copy-paste and window control scripting and suchlike.
@forestbeasts @p4rzivalrp2 Quite honestly, I am a bit disappointed on wayland - it promises a fast X, but it does not provide it. The cause of the slow X was not that it is an old monster, the cause was the much lesser developer resources. Wayland has even much lesser.
So your argument for x11 is Wayland doesn't work on crts and doesn't let all programs access clipboard and kb events freely? If you are using a cat, then use x11, thats why it's an option
Except it's not an option if we want to use our normal DE.
(Also, CRT monitors are normal monitors. And they're actually pretty great. OLED-level blacks, even! Just gotta watch your refresh rate, 60 Hz flickers like crazy if you use a light theme. 70 is fine for us.)
I know CRTs are good(ish), but there not a standard use case. Also most mainstream des support both x11 and wayland
Sure they support both X11 and Wayland for NOW.
KDE soon won't, and that's the one we use.
Gnome I got no clue, we don't use Gnome.
Cinnamon is likely to be alright and supporting X for a good while.
Also like... "but that's not STANDARD!" is literally my entire point. That's the problem. "That's not a standard use case" being used as basically a "go fuck yourself, you don't matter". (You might not be implying this, but a lot of people sure do.)
Linux should support the weird stuff too. "That's not a standard use case" could be used to reject just about anything you don't like, even, say, custom fonts.
That is all fair, and I'm sure there's other issues with Wayland, but really all my issuis come down to xwayland problems. I didn't realize KDE was dropping x11 though, that is unfortunate
@p4rzivalrp2 @forestbeasts its getting harder and harder to do what linux was always good at doing when i first started using it: reviving old hardware. yeah maybe you can still run a cli install of linux pn whatever but its like the days of fluxbox, openbox etc are gone. how long has it been since openbox was actively maintained? i stopped checking years ago.
I mean my cs teacher still uses fluxbox, but on the other hand that's how I know what it is, so you might be somewhat right
@p4rzivalrp2 you can still install them but openbox hasnt had an update since 2015. the repo isnt archived but main hasnt been touched in 12 years. fluxbox hasnt had an update in just as long strangely but there is recent activity to the the repo so maybe its still alive. also maybe they are so simple and stable that they haven’t required any updates but what will happen in the future? how long until theyre not even possible to install?
Yeah that is very weird, idk ¯_(ツ)_/¯