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this post was submitted on 20 Sep 2023
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Colour me impressed. I don't think I could have written such a perfect example of why I hate engaging people in dialogue on this issue. I'll leave you to your echo chamber. I'm sure you and all the other people who support a Voice will sway many people to your side with such convincing arguments.
Being offended is not an argument. Grow up and get a real one.
My argument is that the people here rely on ad hominem attacks to 'support' their own arguments. Thanks for proving my point you rude twat.
Aaaaaaand there goes your self-proclaimed moral high ground!
How the hell do I block someone in Lemmy?
Edit: Never mind. Figured it out. Had to go to the user profile itself because the block pop up doesn't seem to work.
I honestly don't know what the point is? Every single time someone makes an argument for the 'No' side, people accuse the person of 'spreading misinformation' and claim they are 'factually incorrect'.
You mentioned your observations from reading other arguments. I had a brief look at your recent post history for an example of what you meant, and there was one that stood out to me.
Someone made a comment that the Voice would grant powers to a specific race in the Constitution and you loftily replied that you would not be deleting their post but their argument was both 'wrong' and 'misinformation'.
it is not wrong and it is not misinformation, I believe it takes a wild interpretation of the wording to conclude special parliamentary representation is not power.
As an example, people (rightfully) get angered by the major parties throwing 'conferences' where corporations can pay for access to MPs. I doubt many people here would argue these corporations are not being benefited by attending these 'conferences'.
Also, as an aside, while you did not remove that person's post, even mentioning that was an option was not appropriate IMO. How can people have a civilised discussion if they must fear having their posts removed, or being banned from contributing, when a mod or admin disagree with them?
I appreciate now, given the context of user report(s), the reason you specified you weren't deleting that person's post.
Regarding your insistence that the user was spreading misinformation however, I believe that you are splitting hairs. That user did not specify the members would be indigenous, they said it would be racist to include specific powers to a specific race in the Constitution. I already explained my viewpoint that representation is power, a view I am sure most people who support the Voice would agree with given a different context such as the one I earlier described.
if the reason for the 'misinformation' accusation is using the labels 'race' and 'racism' to describe indigenous people and singling them out respectively, then by that logic it is also 'misinformation' in other contexts too. If a shop refuses to serve someone because they are aboriginal, they're not being 'racist' because aboriginals are a 'cultural group' not a race?
Note how the following amendments do not change the validity of the argument one bit:
The word 'disingenuous' is used too often in debate I think, but I'll be honest, that is what it looks like people are being here; intentionally (edit: perhaps subconsciously would be more apt) misunderstanding the 'No' arguments and shutting them down with accusations of lies and misinformation, all so that they don't have to acknowledge that their points are valid.
But the voice doesn't do that.
It gives the government specific powers to advise itself on an important issue that needs to be worked on.
It doesn't give indigenous people any powers at all. Look, the proposed constitutional amendment is a few short paragraphs. Show me the line of text that gives special powers to a specific race. It's not there.
I got another pamphlet in my letterbox today claiming there are things "on the agenda" that are clearly not on the agenda at all. The proposed change to the constitution is very short, very simple, and the No campaign has consistently and repeatedly making things up and claiming a Yes vote will do things that it simply will not do. Frankly it sounds like you're someone who believes some of their miss-information, which is sad.
I encourage you to go back read the actual legal text that we are about to vote on. Fuck the yes and no campaigns and anything people are saying here (even what I'm saying). Just read the actual proposed amendment to the constitution. Have a good think about what it means, it's clearly written.
Also look into how much we are already spending on this issue without good results — spoiler: it's estimated at 3% of our GDP. That's about $1,500 per capita per year... except per capita is the wrong way to look at it since that includes children, elderly people, unemployed people, people who are in prison, or suffer a mental or physical disability. If you are someone who pays taxes then you're probably spending several thousand dollars per year on this issue already and you have been your entire working life. Ask yourself, do you want to continue spending all that money even though it's not working? No, of course not. Lets get this advisory body in place so parliament can start making better decisions and all that money can actually start getting results hopefully (it's worth a try at least).
PS: Yes/No are not the only options. You could just leave the ballot paper blank when you vote. Seems like a waste though, might as well decide where you fall on the issue and select that one.
I have commented on this post explaining my issue with how the 'Yes' camp are using their own creative interpretation of what words mean to argue that the 'No' camp are spreading 'misinformation'. I'm not interested in having further dialogue on what 'special' means, nor 'race', nor 'power', nor 'represent'. If you are interested in my thoughts on the matter you may read my other comments here.
I don't mind taxpayer funds supporting people in need. I do mind taxpayer funds being wasted on a lengthy campaigns and pointless referendums. I am angered that there are so many people struggling to stay in shelter and feed themselves and this is what the government has deemed the priority.
I can't see myself voting 'Yes'. I do not agree with inserting (more) race based language into the Constitution and I think it inappropriate to have a body dedicated to supporting a specific race. I will likely vote 'No' rather than leave the ballot blank. It looks like the proposal will fail, and it's my hope that the numbers will be devastating enough that this pointless and divisive issue doesn't come up again for at least a couple of decades, and our useless representatives can focus their attention on matters of importance.
Who am I kidding... It's going to be that dumb republic crap next, isn't it?