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Don't ask me which ones tho, cuz I'm an old
(lemmy.world)
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this post was submitted on 26 Sep 2023
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Kinda like comparing my grandfathers journal from when he lived in the USSR to what hexbears say.
Apparently he wrote this journal as propaganda before hiding it away at the bottom of his trunk.
Obviously he knew that, some day, his grandchild would spread his propaganda far and wide for the glory of this great nation!
Bingo. No room for occam's razor here!
Happens to me with Venezuela. I lived there before and through/ during the glorious revolución bolivariana and here come the champagne leftists from 8 thousands kilometers away to tell me that it wasn't real socialism, that apparently I am a CIA agent (where my money at?), that I didn't got held at gunpoint many times in my life there for attempting to escape the country as many others and that the government didn't murder my family members haha. Yeah it's not funny at all
Being the victim of American propaganda does not make you an employee CIA agent. But the fact is that America is fundamentally responsible for most of the problems in Venezuela, both via CIA meddling, and letting our capitalists decimate their economy for their own personal gain. Its the same story across almost all of South America. Sometimes it's staging coups on their elected leaders, sometimes it's leveraging the power of a fruit company in order to rewrite their laws to be favorable towards said fruit company.
Listening to Behind the Bastards has taught me all I think I need to know to understand where the blame lies for the economic shit of the last 100 years in South America.
What do they say if they're saying it's not real socialism?
I would assume something along the lines of - autocracy, authoritarianism, and corruption do not describe what socialism portends to be.
That said, I did read something the other day about how Marxist Leninism in reality relies on the concept of an authoritarian that creates the framework, stays in power to enforce the will of the worker, and gradually relinquishes power as it is no longer required. Interesting.
I know enough about socialism to know that it is as homogeneous a concept as a bloody Mary from a gentrified cafe. Someone saying they know more about socialism than another simply because they lived through one of the scant few representations of it has about as much reason as someone saying they're an expert in capitalism or patriotism because they live the US. So, I can appreciate the perspective that someone from a socialist country can offer, but it in no way defines socialism as an ethos, IMO.
Or maybe your grandfather just had a perspective that was skewed by either wealth or propaganda. From context in going to guess that he attributes a lot of the negatives caused by capitlaists during the cold war to simply being fundamental facts of socialism/communism
Yea, that's the one thing he didn't mention in the journal or bring here with him; loads of cash.
You're a fucking tool.
I was trying to give him the benefit of the doubt actually. You're the one saying he isn't merely the victim of propaganda. Its entirely possible he was just an idiot. Or a massive piece of shit. Most of the people who were "driven out" of communist countries were just business owners who were trying to hoard all the food they grew, during a famine. So yes, now that you bring it up, it is also possible your grandfather was just a massive POS, rather than a victim.
Hahaha sure dude. Whatever you say. I'm sure you know much more about the trials and tribulations that happened before you were born than the people who lived through it.
I'm super happy to be living in this country after having read about my ancestors experiences. He took a risk by coming here, but we all have benefitted from it.
You're still a fucking tool, though. 🤡
Yeah, that kind of thing can happen when you actually research history rather than ask one person. There's a reason anecdotal evidence isn't given much credence.
So my options in this scenario:
read a first hand account from my ancestor and parse out any personal feelings that cloud the truth
read an opinion from a nameless stranger online who has done nothing but doubt what I have read with my own eyes
As you can see here, the 'anecdotal evidence' is coming from you, and the historical truth that actually existed is documented in this journal.
Get your head out of your ass.
Why are those your only options? You already ruled out researching what the actual truth is? Don't take my word for it, prove me wrong. If I can be proven wrong, I want to know. My evidence is empirical, but 2nd hand. Better than anecdotal, but not proof in itself. Your grandfather's journal is primary, but anecdotal. Would you rather be right, or be correct? I'd rather be correct.
I have a first hand account written by a person who I trust.
You can fuck off with your 2nd hand bullshit.
You are wrong, misled and propagandized.
You are a fool.
Oh, my research into the matter was propaganda? Is all of the rest of the actual data propaganda too? You have anecdotal evidence, which I have no doubt your grandfather believed was true, but which does not necessarily mean it is correct. The fact is that the vast majority of those who fled the USSR citing persecution had very much done something worthy of persecution. Most commonly, withholding the means of production from their workers.
If I am wrong though, show me the proof. Anecdotal evidence is useful for verifying knowledge, and for creating hypotheses. For proof though, actual data is required.