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this post was submitted on 29 Sep 2023
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I mentioned this in another thread but I keep thinking about Trayvon Martin and how upset I was that Zimmerman was released and got his gun back. I feel like our country is increasingly more acceptable of gun violence as a fact of life. How could precedents like this be applied to future cases? I'm not claiming to have all the answers I'm just not convinced that this is the best decision. I could be wrong though. It wouldn't be the first time.
The issue in that case if memory serves is that nobody actually knew and could testify as to what happened during the confrontation.
The privilege of self defense can be gained and lost in the course of an altercation. If an initial aggressor says "sorry, I'm outta here" and starts walking away, the initial victim's privilege ends. If you shoot them in the back while they leave, it's a crime. I didn't believe a word that Zimmerman fuck said but the burden of proof was on the state. All Zimmerman had to do in the criminal case was say nothing, which is what he did. In the Martin family's wrongful death suit against the homeowners association, I believe the association's insurer settled for seven figures or more. Guess they thought Zimmerman wouldn't make a very credible witness when he'd be required to testify in civil court. They knew why was he was hastling Martin in the first place, knew Zimmerman's story had gaping holes in it.
The right to remain silent and the reasonable doubt standard rightly freed Zimmerman, in my view.
In the story above, there were numerous witnesses and video. I didn't follow the trial, though.
So theoretically if someone shot someone else and there weren't any witnesses or video and the shooter said exactly what happened in this case happened in this hypothetical situation do you think it would be equally justified?
Good question, I think.
It's not a great fit because of two factors the food court patron knew there were others around and saw the YouTuber's posse standing there with cell phone cameras. If I were on the jury, that would make it less reasonable for the patron to claim he was in fear for his life. He had no reason to assume the YouTuber was armed, and with that evidence of so people around and it being so open and public, and again, no weapon, patron was at best about to catch a beating, which I think even is a stretch because there was no verbal threats or display of intent to do violence.
Anyway, to your question, assuming the jury is going to disregard the public location and cameras everywhere, if the patron gave the exact same story, I think it would remain unjustified. The shooter claimed that, given the circumstances, he drew the inference that his life was in danger, a danger of serious bodily injury. That's the standard.
I think there the facts support only an inference of a threat to bodily injury. The shooter could have safely waited before escalating to shooting. Shooting a YouTuber in the chest was disproportionate to the facts, in my view. The proportion has to be objectively reasonable, such proportion as society is willing to accept. I think, if everyone shot in this sort of situation, nobody would like it, and there would be many, many more deaths by gun violence.
... I think you're right, we are becoming a little more accustomed to gun violence, of the large-scale type especially. While I think we've always had a lot of gun violence in general, especially if you include gang/organized crime activity, the 24/7 unending stream of news makes exposure to stories of it a lot more consistent and even.
Regarding how the precedent could influence things into the future, I'm not sure.
Thankfully in this case no one died. I think we can all agree on that.
Can we?
apparently not