572
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
this post was submitted on 29 Sep 2023
572 points (98.0% liked)
World News
38972 readers
2599 users here now
A community for discussing events around the World
Rules:
-
Rule 1: posts have the following requirements:
- Post news articles only
- Video links are NOT articles and will be removed.
- Title must match the article headline
- Not United States Internal News
- Recent (Past 30 Days)
- Screenshots/links to other social media sites (Twitter/X/Facebook/Youtube/reddit, etc.) are explicitly forbidden, as are link shorteners.
-
Rule 2: Do not copy the entire article into your post. The key points in 1-2 paragraphs is allowed (even encouraged!), but large segments of articles posted in the body will result in the post being removed. If you have to stop and think "Is this fair use?", it probably isn't. Archive links, especially the ones created on link submission, are absolutely allowed but those that avoid paywalls are not.
-
Rule 3: Opinions articles, or Articles based on misinformation/propaganda may be removed. Sources that have a Low or Very Low factual reporting rating or MBFC Credibility Rating may be removed.
-
Rule 4: Posts or comments that are homophobic, transphobic, racist, sexist, anti-religious, or ableist will be removed. “Ironic” prejudice is just prejudiced.
-
Posts and comments must abide by the lemmy.world terms of service UPDATED AS OF 10/19
-
Rule 5: Keep it civil. It's OK to say the subject of an article is behaving like a (pejorative, pejorative). It's NOT OK to say another USER is (pejorative). Strong language is fine, just not directed at other members. Engage in good-faith and with respect! This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban.
Similarly, if you see posts along these lines, do not engage. Report them, block them, and live a happier life than they do. We see too many slapfights that boil down to "Mom! He's bugging me!" and "I'm not touching you!" Going forward, slapfights will result in removed comments and temp bans to cool off.
-
Rule 6: Memes, spam, other low effort posting, reposts, misinformation, advocating violence, off-topic, trolling, offensive, regarding the moderators or meta in content may be removed at any time.
-
Rule 7: We didn't USED to need a rule about how many posts one could make in a day, then someone posted NINETEEN articles in a single day. Not comments, FULL ARTICLES. If you're posting more than say, 10 or so, consider going outside and touching grass. We reserve the right to limit over-posting so a single user does not dominate the front page.
We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.
All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.
Lemmy World Partners
News !news@lemmy.world
Politics !politics@lemmy.world
World Politics !globalpolitics@lemmy.world
Recommendations
For Firefox users, there is media bias / propaganda / fact check plugin.
https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/media-bias-fact-check/
- Consider including the article’s mediabiasfactcheck.com/ link
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
Can you provide an example of MAID being abused?
I absolutely can. Lemme give you an article about it, and not Fox News either.
https://apnews.com/article/covid-science-health-toronto-7c631558a457188d2bd2b5cfd360a867
It's actually a giant problem where doctors and hopsitals are actively pushing this onto the poor in order to "Free up a few beds", even going far as to shame people who refuse for being "selfish"
Nothing wrong with offering end of life care, I'm all for it, but when you're actively pushing it onto patients and even making commercials talking about "How glamorous suicide is!" (which they did, and it aired on Youtube, but it got pulled due to massive dislikes and violating Youtube's policies which forbid advocating self-harm).... It leaves me with the impression that you've got a problem you're looking for a "Final Solution" to.
Honestly more people need to know about this and just how.... well... blatantly genocidal Canada is acting.
While I agree that assistance in dying should not be used to offset a lack of other necessary care, like mental health, addictions (which I believe are disqualifiers for MAID), or disability, the article provided only examples of health care professionals offering the service to people who had severly diminished quality of life as an option of part of their care. I think it's a stretch to say these were examples of coersion. The decision is left solely to the patient, and I think their family's account can often cloud any reporting of what the patient's wishes actually are.
Anecdotally, the health professionals I know say there are far too many families, and ocassionally doctors who think they're superheros, who wish to prolong their relative's/patient's life for the sole purpose of delaying death. People, like Mr. Nichols' family, will say he's got a great quality of life, but picture yourself in his shoes. Deaf for most of your life, now vision loss, seizures, your body essentially withering away. He was suffering, and clearly, he wanted to end it. Several inquiries noted he fully qualified for and received MAID as he wished, even though it may not have been the wish of his family.
I do think it would be useful to have a review panel for more complex cases, like Dr Marmoreo suggests. But, I think the majority of cases where the family might raise concerns are cases where they are prioretizing their wishes above those of the patient actually seeking the care, rather than a professional wantonly pushing MAID for no particular reason.
I dunno, it's a little sus that they had that one guy who claimed someone was sent to talk to him about "Seeing if he wanted to kill himself", when he hadn't said anything to staff about wanting it.
That's precisely the job of a physician or health professional though. Ensure the patient is aware of the options they have available for care. They saw that he would likely meet the criteria and suggested it as an option. Them explaining the reasons of why they elected to suggest that option of care is not coersion in any sense.
The fact that they're going to non-terminal patients and trying to talk them into suicide is a problem in and of itself. You MUST recognize that.
Again, they are not trying to talk them into anything, they are saying it's an available option.
i'm not seeing the part of that article where there's any evidence at all of health care workers pushing anybody to take MAiD.
So you missed this part then?
"In one recording obtained by the AP, the hospital’s director of ethics told Foley that for him to remain in the hospital, it would cost “north of $1,500 a day.” Foley replied that mentioning fees felt like coercion and asked what plan there was for his long-term care.
“Roger, this is not my show,” the ethicist responded. “My piece of this was to talk to you, (to see) if you had an interest in assisted dying.”
Foley said he had never previously mentioned euthanasia. The hospital says there is no prohibition on staff raising the issue.
Catherine Frazee, a professor emerita at Toronto’s Ryerson University, said cases like Foley’s were likely just the tip of the iceberg.
“It’s difficult to quantify it, because there is no easy way to track these cases, but I and other advocates are hearing regularly from disabled people every week who are considering (euthanasia),” she said.
Frazee cited the case of Candice Lewis, a 25-year-old woman who has cerebral palsy and spina bifida. Lewis’ mother, Sheila Elson, took her to an emergency room in Newfoundland five years ago. During her hospital stay, a doctor said Lewis was a candidate for euthanasia and that if her mother chose not to pursue it, that would be “selfish,” Elson told the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation. "
That's a far cry from "pushing" MAID.
Maid is an option, and should be an option. People need to know about it. However, there are always other options. Hospice is subsidized. Long term care is subsidized. Homecare nursing us subsidized. You just can't stay in the hospital, because the hospital is for acute people in recovery.
There are absolutely illnesses that ruin your quality of life but don't kill you, leaving you to suffer. Their medical system is NOT designed to care for all of everyone's needs. It's specifically designed to provide life saving care.
The stupid part is that if a person is so sick that they can't care for themselves, and they get released home, they often just deteriorate and end up back in the hospital.
Their system beats our system, but it's not perfect.
"If you get sick, we can just kill you, because if we don't, you're back in the hospital eventually"
This is terrible logic
You're right, that is terrible logic.
Good thing nobody but you is saying that.
Did we read the same excerpts? It's disgusting that was said to that man, how can you defend that?
Read the article:
https://apnews.com/article/covid-science-health-toronto-7c631558a457188d2bd2b5cfd360a867
Foley has a degenerative brain disorder. He IS dying. His quality of life will continue to deteriorate until he dies. This might be sad, but it's just the fact. We need to be able to talk about these things.
The hospital cannot fix him. There is no acute care for his condition. It's just a matter of where and when. And this is EXACTLY what assisted dying is for.
The only recourse the hospital has to people refusing discharge is to charge them the price of their hospital stay. It's not coersion, it's just consequence. It's reality.
I'm not saying this ethicist did their job well. But without the full recording it's hard to know what the situation was. I've been in the palliative ward at the local hospital and I can tell you that people fight really hard.
The alternatives, depending on how much care he needs, are long term care or hospice. Both are subsidized but if he has money saved he would have to contribute to his care and a lot of people don't want to do that.
"people fight really hard"
Have you considered that you might be the son of Satan himself? What an incredibly grim thing to say so matter-of-factly.
MAID being pushed on poor people, MAID being pushed on veterans asking for mental health
many Canadians will know examples of it being abused
You seem to have missed the part where I asked for an example. That means providing evidence for one's claims.
Someone provided a good article and you guys just ignored what it said, soooooo.
you could just google?
https://globalnews.ca/news/9072857/canada-veterans-assisted-dying-investigation/