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this post was submitted on 05 Oct 2023
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Anti-choice people shot and bombed doctors and clinics so it’s not exactly unprecedented.
So, you're okay sinking to those same lows?
The thing is…it worked. People training to be doctors stopped going into abortion-related fields, some schools stopped teaching late-term abortion techniques, and it overall became more difficult to get abortions. And now abortions are becoming illegal again in many states. Their side won.
Not yet. A lot of doctors are leaving those states so that they can practice freely without fear of being prosecuted for doing what's best for their patients. Looking at you, Idaho
You say, "won" like nothing can ever change. Dobbs is definitely a step back but I am certain it'll change back in my lifetime. I'm not an American, but where I am, we've adjusted to the threats against abortion providers and I think many US states have done the same.
As the saying goes, "The arc of the moral universe is long, but it bends toward justice."
Yes. Do you think we're really going to take a doctor like this and sit him down and make him a functioning member of society who treats women with respect?
No, he should lose his medical license and potentially suffer other consequences, but that's through the process of a civilized society. The nurse practitioner's actions sound criminal and should be prosecuted as such. No need to act barbaric.
And that'll fix society? Because we've been trying it that way for a very long time. Things are getting so much better doing it that way right?
Day by day society is getting more progressive and moving away from things like this right? Right?
Yes, society is getting more progressive.
Even if it didn't, violence won't solve anything.
We are getting more progressive? When did we get roe versus Wade back? Did we stop trying to outlaw trans people? When did the police stop executing black people in the street just for fun?
These people do what they want because it's literally legal for them to do it. Nobody is doing anything to stop them. Now if they all started getting drug into the middle of the street and sat on fire they would think twice.
We are definitely getting more progressive. We are in a better position than pre-Roe and I'm sure Dobbs will be overturned in my lifetime. Trans rights and black rights have continued to improve, though slower than we'd like. The idea that "nobody is doing anything to stop them" is provable false.
I don't disagree that violence isn't the correct answer in this situation, but "Violence never solves anything" is just a nice platitude and is demonstrably false. Most of the rights and privileges we have today only came about through violent means. It is more accurate to say violence doesn't solve everything.
Or to put it another way:
The Magna Carta was a peace treaty.
The ideas of a democratic republic were born of the French and American Revolutions
MLK was the peaceful side of a civil rights movement that would not have had the same power without Malcom X and the black panthers.
Overtime, the 5 day work week, unions and most labor protections came at the expense of a LOT of blood in the United States.
Women's Suffrage was not a peaceful movement either.
In the history of most countries, mass violent protest has been the protest most likely to achieve its goals. Saying "Violence never solves anything" is to turn a blind eye to history.
There are exceptions to every rule, but unless violence is being used in defence, there are almost always other ways. For example, experts don't agree whether Malcolm X's violent efforts helped or harmed the civil-rights movement. There's a reason modern unions don't fuck with violence.
I’ve been saying this for years. Hope you don’t get banned.
If I do I do. But that's where I am. We keep trying the 'right' thing to fix society and get past this shit.
Its. not. fucking. working.
It really is working. It might not be as fast as we want, and it's definitely a bit of "two steps forwards, one step back," but society is generally moving in the right direction.
Tell this woman and the thousands of others like her that it's working. I fucking dare you to go to her account and post don't worry society is getting better just live with it for now.
I'm not responding to her specific situation, but the movement of society in general.
To be quite frank, we are beyond the time where incremental change is going to save us on so many issues, we might as well drastically raze the entire structure to the ground and rebuild anew. We shortly will not have the planet we used to because we’ve been trying this current method of polite effort. We need to be rude, aggressive, and dangerous to our opposition because they are trying to kill us. They are actively killing us. We are not winning yet and I don’t know if I have time to see us get there.
It seems a lot more like half a step forward, one step back.
By any means necessary.