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this post was submitted on 05 Oct 2023
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Reading the comments I think I’m in the minority but you did ask so I’ll be candid and honest. I’ll also try my best to be respectful.
E-bikes and e-scooters drive me nuts. They can definitely be an annoyance, and sometimes a safety concern in bike lanes due to the fact that most riders of these electric machines are new to riding on the road, but that’s not even what makes me upset.
I just don’t get why people don’t invest in a good, correctly fitted bicycle. They are cheaper (often by an order of magnitude or two), easy to maintain, keep you healthy, use standardized, readily available parts, will never go obsolete, don’t need a charger, don’t contribute to e-waste, and are completely ubiquitous. I just don’t get why people don’t ride bikes. They are so amazing! Ever since I was a kid I have been completely obsessed, and now well into my thirties I am still a total nerd about bikes. I don’t think there is anything better than a good bike ride.
The part that confuses me the most about e-bikes is the serviceability. Who is fixing these things? All of the bike mechanic/nerd friends of mine won’t touch them with a 10 foot pole. Do bike mechanics now have to familiarize themselves with high voltage lithium ion batteries? Is there a standard for these batteries? If a manufacturer decides to go proprietary, and then decide to stop making e-bikes, or goes bankrupt, is your e-bike now e-waste? The whole thing makes me confused as to why we tried to fix a problem that was not a problem. Bikes just work.
I think a lot of people have bad experiences riding bikes because their last experience was with an uncomfortable, poorly sized, heavy bike. But the feeling of riding a light, correctly sized, comfortable bike is truly divine. In my opinion it’s on par with good sex.
BTW - of course there is a good reason for some seniors or people with disabilities to use something like this, but that is not the target that I am referring to.
So when I see an e-bike or an e-scooter I get upset on principle. And then when they do something dangerous like speed past me or ride the wrong direction in a bike lane I become infuriated. But maybe the world is changing and I should to. But I tell you what I am not ready for bikes to be replaced with e-bikes.
You're just wrong about ebikes. First, many riders are veteran cyclists. Second, many people are choosing an ebike over a car, not an ebike over another bike. Hills and sweat are major factors in our lives, especially on the way to work. Third, serviceability is often handled by the manufacturer. Customers of course need to pay attention that when considering what brand to purchase.
So ... your rant is fine for a rant, and I feel you about dangerous speeding objects flying by, but please take the above facts into consideration.
Thanks. Can you clarify which part about e-bikes I am wrong about? I mostly just stated that they confuse me.
Would you also mind providing me with some more information about how the manufacturer fixing their own product work? Is it like an iPhone in that only some people with a special license can do it? Are there some parts the user is expected to fix, and others they are meant to send back? What about general tune ups? What happens when the manufacturer goes out of business? What happens if they are not situated in your city? Will they be able to replace a battery in 20 years from now? 50 years from now?
FWIW I live in the prairies so hills don’t exist where I am from. I get why some people would prefer some assistance for a hill. But some wisdom I gained when I lived in a hilly village: what goes up must come down.
As for sweat, I guess if you have a job where you have to present a certain way, I get it. Personally, I just pack an extra shirt and bring deodorant. Sweating is good for you!
You’re right: e-bikes > cars. If every driver got on an e-bike I would be ecstatic. But my point is that if you spent as much on a traditional bike as you did on an e-bike you would have a machine that would outlast your lifetime and be much easier to ride than you may imagine. Riding a good bike isn’t that much harder than an e-bike.
On a side note, I’m a little bummed I got downvoted. Usually a downvote means you are being toxic or are not contributing to the conversation. Am I being rude? I just feel passionate about bikes.
You asked for clarification, and I'm happy to clarify, but I'm not sure what parts were not clear. What confuse you in what I wrote?
When I researched and purchased my e-bike, I went to a bike chain shop and asked them about the maintenance question. They explained that most forms of maintenance on any bike are the same as you have on a regular bike, which is the kind of thing that people can often do at home and any old bike shop can do. They also explained that when there are parts of the motor or battery that malfunction, sometimes their chain can fix it in the store, and sometimes they have to send the bike to the manufacturers fix it shop. I live in a big city so that's not a major concern, but it could be a concern for you. I also made sure to choose a brand that's owned by a very large company that is unlikely to go bankrupt in the near future. This all depends on the manufacturer so you'll want to do serious research before making any purchases, and you certainly cannot expect to find generic answers that will address all cases.
Another point to consider is the lifetime of a regular bicycle. Before I bought an e-bike I had a road bike and I treated it fairly well and did routine maintenance, but it finally fell apart in major ways after 10 years. Of course I could have fixed it, but buying all of the parts that needed replacing and paying for labor would have been more expensive than buying a new bike. Of course each person's bike will have a varying lifetime depending on luck and many other factors, but I don't suppose many people would get 20 years of daily use out of a bicycle.
As for the down votes, perhaps it was the general tone of the post. What was your aim in writing it?
What was I trying to get across in my original comment? Like I said at the beginning: a candid, honest, respectful take on the question OP asked. I was aware my opinion was in the minority. I wasn’t confused about your comment, I am confused about e-bikes in general. I am getting less confused now though.
I’m surprised to hear your bike lasted only 10 years. I am certain that as long as it hadn’t suffered a fatal crash, if you had brought it to a community bike shop (if you live in a big city I can almost guarantee there are several to choose from) then you could have had it repaired for dirt cheap. CBSs are volunteer run and have parts donated and are a fantastic way to get educated about bicycle repair. In fact, a lot of the parts — especially frames — that CBSs get are from landfills, so it’s likely that if you threw your 10 year old bike away, it’s been either stripped for parts, or someone rebuilt it. As a volunteer myself, 10 year old bikes are a gem and are considered “new”.
Not long ago I finished rebuilding my grandfather’s bike which he bought in the 1930s. It runs like it’s brand new. I was able to take apart every single piece, clean it, and put it back together freshly lubed. I only had to replace the spokes, tubes, chain, and tires, all of which are considered disposable. Many of the bikes that I’ve ridden are older than me (I was born in the 80s) and when I pass them down to their next owner -sometimes a thief- they’re in much better shape than when I bought them originally. I just don’t see that happening with e-bikes and that makes me sad, and admittedly sometimes angry.
Having to send parts back to the manufacturer is a big red flag for me. Is the manufacturer obligated to continue to repair these parts forever? Think about how upset people get about John Deere, Tesla, or Apple, and how they make it nearly impossible to repair an object without going to them? How is this different? Centralized repair is almost always a disaster. To clarify what I am confused about: why isn’t this aspect of e-bikes talked about more? Cycling and bicycle maintenance tend to go hand in hand, but it is not something talked about in e-bike circles, as far as I am aware. Is e-bike jailbreaking a thing?
I will say, though, after reading some of the comments, including yours, I am starting to get the appeal. I know that they’re not for me, but I can understand why some people are drawn to e-bikes, and can see the vision that e-bikers might have when they get on their e-bike. But until there is a way to ensure that every e-bike can be repaired at home, I will be sad about the expensive e-waste that will inevitably be created as a result of companies obfuscating their patents with proprietary parts and software. The right to repair is something often overlooked for a shiny new toy, but when the time comes to have to throw away that toy because a company considers a part to be “antiquated” (the word Apple used to describe my at-the-time 5-year-old laptop that they refused to fix, and whose part was completely unavailable on the internet) I think people may start to feel differently about the industry.
My country does not have community repair shops in accessible locations, at least not in most cities. I can do small routine maintenance myself, but major things involve the bike shop. The issues you mention are indeed big ones. Of course some consumers do their research, and others don’t.
Where I live, I have hills, big hills in every direction. I own both types of bike, a rad runner 6 for long, fast rides from my house, and then 20 miles up into the mountains along back roads.
I have a road bike that I bought when I couldn't really afford it, and paid about 1,000 for it. It's a tomasso. It's ok. I wish I had a trek, or a specialized hybrid road with the slightly thicker tires than the tiny ones my road bike has. I can't really afford those.
I use the RAD bike more for cardio, generally leave it in pedal assist 2 or 3 and just try to get a quick workout during lunch time. I take the other plain road bike out with a cycling club locally one or two nights a week. I don't own a car, and I work from home. Biking makes me happy, but I get lazy when it's really hot, so I ride the e-bikes more when it's hot.
I'm 45. It's not as easy as 45 to build muscle back up and get superfit in a short amount of time. The e-bike helps with cardio and keeps me excited about taking a quick spin without getting totally smoked by all of the hill climbs it takes to get out of my neighborhood, much less through the foothills of the smokies and Appalachians.
A small point but a legit one. I have two e-scooters and I like them a lot. One point on cost, the cheaper one was around $700 and is a phenomenal commuter. The other one is still a commuter, but with more powerful motors for my very hilly area. That one was around $1400. There are mid ranges bikes (in the total scale of bikes) that cost what both my scooters do together.
In this way, e-bikes and e-scooters should be seen very differently imo.
My daily driver bicycle cost $150CAD, is older than I am, and I have replaced almost all of the out-of-date parts for modern parts for a few more hundred bucks. All well under $500CAD, including my Honjo fenders. A lot of the parts I got for free or a few bucks at my local community bike shop.
Any bicycle more than $1500 is for high performance or enthusiast riding and the average commuter has no need to consider purchasing that. I also own a Marinoni (hand built in Montreal by an Italian world renowned frame builder) with full Campagnolo Record (read: top spec) components and it cost $2500 CAD. Sure, there are bikes worth more than that, and for good reason, (my pro-cyclist friend rides a $12000 bike) but if you’re not competitive (or a dentist) there is no point.
My point being that $500 is more than enough to get you a very nice bike, as long as you are willing to buy used and put some TLC into it.
What I'm saying is that $500 is enough to get you a brand new e-scooter that will go similar-to-bike speeds with no deal hunting, no mods, and a warranty. They're also foldable, portable on to most public trans (inside) or into "the office", and have virtually no maintenance.
No hate on bikes. I have a couple of very nice bikes (not as nice as that Marinoni to be fair). But let's not act like you're reliability getting places for <$500. And even if you do, not everyone can. Solutions need to be repeatable.
Edit: also to be fair, I am talking $500 USD. But if you go with a used scooter here you could probably do around $500 CAD equivalent.
Had a good bike. It was in my bike shed pretty much unused for years. Bought my first e-bike some years ago and sold my car some time ago after not using it.
I live in Finland close to city centre with a shopping center nearby, so e-bike covers most of my needs. Occasionally I need to rent a car or loan one from a friend. I ride my e-bike throughout the year. Just need to replace the tires with studded tires for winter and drive a bit more carefully when there is ice/snow. I am pretty sure my e-bike I actually keeps me in better shape than the good regular bike I had, that I kept in the shed.
9km (6miles) to city center to the office, and it takes me 21min to get there on an e-bike (could not be arsed to commute with regular bike as there are quite a few ascends and descends). Bus 31min and car would be around that as well.
Service is not a problem either. Any bike shop fixes them here at least and there are specialized shops for e-bikes as well if you have something more exotic or think you need a specialized one. Most of the bikes here are fitted with Bosch or Shimano systems anyway so there is not much need for specializing.
Granted, I am closer to a senior than a teenager.
To the OP: We have a ton of e-scooters here. Both rental ones (multiple operators) and private ones and I do not mind them on a bike lane. We both are limited to 25kmh (15mph) assist, but I do go a bit faster as I can still pedal where they can not. Infact, it is also the law that they need to use bike lane if one is available. They are not to use sidewalk. They are analoguous to bikes in our road law.
Bigger problem than scooters on the bike lane are the pedestrians on the bike lane in the city centre at least. People walking with their noses on their cell phones not paying attention to the divider and just walking in the middle of the very well marked bike lanes.