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this post was submitted on 20 Jun 2023
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As much as I'm glad that Andrew Tate is facing criminal charges, I think we need to address the root cause of our societal ills. Tate isn't the cause but rather a symtpom.
We really need to step back and ask ourselves why somebody so brazenly misogynistic has attracted a following of millions and has become a role model to teenage boys especially.
I can explain exactly why, because we've created a growing social underclass of men who cannot earn a living, cannot find a romantic partner, cannot live fulfilling lives, and anybody who they turn to either mocks them, fobs them off, or give them false platitudes, which is why they turn to toxic masculinity and the Manosphere for guidance.
The reality is that inceldom is largely an economic issue that has resulted from decades of stagnated wages which have disproportionately affected men, because despite our best efforts to create an egalitarian society, we still overwhelmingly find men unattractive if they are not the strong hunter-gatherers and providers that our biology has been conditioned over millions of years to find physically attractive. Our biology has not caught up to the millennia of societal progress we've made because evolution is a much slower process.
Hmm, I don't think I'm with you. You say men are incels because they're poor and can't find a girl. From what I've seen, they can't find a girl because of deeply rooted, misogynistic beliefs that turn people off. If also like to see your citation for wage stagnation affecting men more than women, because every study I've seen says the wage gap has stayed the same or widened in the last few years. I know many, many men who aren't the strong hunter gatherer type and have loving wives or girlfriends. The difference is those guys aren't assholes.
People aren't born with misogynistic beliefs. They also aren't taught them in school.
I'm not going to google search for you, but it's pretty easy to see that wage stagnation affects men more because traditionally, men are expected to be the provider for the household and women have traditionally had the option of not starting a career and just finding a man instead. I'm not saying that women are not affected, but they have an economic "out" that men generally don't have.
I'm willing to bet that they also have stable jobs. Also, if you're one of them of course you'd know a bunch of other men who are similar; this says nothing about a large swath of men that the grandparent comment is referring to.
People aren't born with any beliefs. What's your explanation for racism, homophobia, fascism, and other hateful views and behavior? People learn that stuff by their environment growing up, and there's an awful lot of toxic masculinity.
And you're argument about poverty and wage stagnation would make more sense if there weren't so many poor people in happy marriages.
No, I hear your argument, but it doesn't seem to hold water to me. The simpler answer is that some men are taught to believe shitty things growing up. Those shitty things lead to shitty behaviors that cause people not to be around them. The worst ones are the ones who believe men should be dominant over women, but are also timid or introverted, making them angry pressure cookers.
I think his point was that it’s ok for a woman to not earn much without it impacting her attractiveness to men, while the reverse isn’t true. There is a reason why rich millionaire falling in love with poor woman is a romance novel trope while not so much the other way around.
Finances are part of the attraction in a male if looking for actual relationships. You ain’t not gonna impress a woman flipping burgers at McD while men don’t care what a woman’s job is if she’s pretty and fun to be around.
I understood the point, but my counter was that there are loads of poor people in living relationships. Are there women who aren't interested in a man who isn't "successful?" Absolutely, just like there are men who aren't interested in a woman who doesn't look like a supermodel. But is it too the point where, if you aren't a wealthy man, you can't get a date or find love? No, that's bullshit.
the "strong hunter gatherer type" of life died out centuries ago.
those who want to live as "strong hunter gatherer" due to their "because traditionally" mindset should either join https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hunter-gatherer#Modern_hunter-gatherer_groups or give up civilization and live their life in the wild.
if "because traditonally" thinking is creating incels, then these men should choose to get professional therapy to change their mindset rather than choosing toxic masculinity and becoming incels.
I'd love to see a therapist about my mental health.
Unfortunately, I live in the UK, where there is a several-years-long waiting list to get help on the NHS, and where every private therapist is oversubscribed and not taking any bookings.
Literally the only option for people like me is BetterHelp, and they're basically the Uber/Lyft of mental healthcare, in the sense that they don't even bother to ensure that licensed and qualified individuals are on their service. They are such a shady and scandal-ridden company.
Imagine how it is in the United States where healthcare costs are prohibitively expensive and the mere thought of universal healthcare is anathema...