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Hamas says it has taken ‘dozens’ of Israelis hostage
(www.nbcnews.com)
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this post was submitted on 07 Oct 2023
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Everyone should be allowed a homeland, but not everyone should be allowed an apartheid state where they're allowed to oppress others.
It's a good thing Israel is the only place in the Middle East where people have the same rights regardless of race or religion. There's nothing in Israel resembling apartheid.
https://www.algemeiner.com/2022/01/24/dismantling-the-apartheid-lie/
The Israeli government oppresses the Palestinian people in response to the constant threat the region poses to Israeli civilians. I wish for peace and an end to oppression. But since Israel unilaterally withdrew from the Gaza strip in 2005, terrorist activity spiked. Israel's concessions constantly result in the deaths of innocent Israelis. This is the conflict.
Correction: Terrorist activity, predictably spiked after the blockade in 2007. I mean, turning countries into open-air concentration camps has that effect.
What? How does oppressing civilians in the West Bank and East Jerusalem help combat terror? How does settlement in the West Bank help combat terror?
Also check the official definition of Apartheid. Do you need me to tell you how Israel fits the definition?
There's nothing necessary about the oppression of Palestinians in Israel, Gaza or the West Bank. The terror attacks you're talking about are the result of the oppression; don't mix your cause and effect.
The main oppressors of Gaza are Hamas. The main reason for their living conditions is because building materials are taken from the Palestinian citizens to be instead used for tunnels into Israel to kill more Jews. The reason for the blockade is because Iran sends Hamas weapons by sea otherwise. Hell, even with the blockade they still try to do so.
Of course all of these facts are comfortably ignored because "Israel bad".
The terror came after, not before, the blockade. Just saying. And a blockade is already an act of war, so Hamas fighting is to be expected.
The blockade started in 2007. The terror started a solid century before then. Shit, the second intifada started in 2000.
The revisionist history is strong in this thread.
1907? The conflict was definitely ongoing then, but that's a strange definition of terror.
Do I really have to say "terror by Hamas-controlled Gaza" when I'm already talking about Hamas-controlled Gaza? Also, calling the second intifada terror is extremely ignorant and ignores the actual reasons it happened.
Your tactic is superficial. A blockade does not make a concentration camp. You're evoking imagery of something that is, in fact, wholly unrelated. you chose that term specifically in your intentional, racist attempt to paint Jews as Nazis. I hope to hell nobody falls for it.
Specifically, the blockade helps fight terror. The blockade prevents terrorists from getting materials to make weapons. And Hamas uses anything it can get its hands on into a weapon. That's part of the reason they work so hard to control the flow of aid within Palestine—the other reasons being quite obvious.
Only insofar as every border everywhere fits the definition. South African Apartheid—the thing people are trying to reference in order to demonize Israel—was intra-state apartheid. It was not an instance of border enforcement. Border enforcement is incredibly common. The Israel-Palestine conflict has nothing to do with Apartheid South Africa, but again, you people know that people think Apartheid is bad, so those are your go-tos. Israel is Nazis, Israel is Apartheid. Neither claim holds up to any scrutiny. You'd be better off arguing that Israel was a communist nation, tbh.
Muslims and Arabs in the region have been terrorizing Jews since at least the late 1800s. They were never willing to accept any form of peace or coexistence.
That's a metaphor, ever heard of it? Israel doesn't allow dual-use materials. The thing is: A lot of life's necessities are dual use. See:
The blockade caused the terror. Like literally the rocket attacks started with the blockade; you can look at the timeline. Also I like how you now narrowed your definition to the blockade, because you can't justify anything happening to Palestinians in East Jerusalem and the West Bank.
You need to learn more about East Jerusalem. I'll start: East Jerusalem Palestinians are systematically and routinely evicted from their homes to make way for Jewish settlements. It's much harder for Palestinians to gain construction permits than it is for Jews. Palestinian peaceful protests are repeatedly suppressed violently. It's almost impossible for a Palestinian in East Jerusalem to get Israeli citizenship (not that many want it, but the ones who do can't), meaning that they live under a regime they can't politically participate in. Should I go on? For more information, look up "Palestinian boy shoot in face by Israeli police". There's more than one story.
Note how I didn't even touch on the West Bank; that's a whole different beast.
You mean anti-Jewish sentiment began to rise when the "let's take Arabs' lands for ourselves" movement began to gain steam? Say it ain't so. Also give me an example of that terrorization.
It's a racially charged metaphor, and intentionally so. And it's a very, very weak one, except for that racism.
You're literally making up a lie for the purpose of blaming the victim, but luckily, it's easily falsifiable. Rocket fire began in 2001, the blockade began in 2007.
What are you talking about? I gave an example. Do you want me to go through the security basis for a dozen more regulations? Would that be a constructive use of my time, here?
Have you ever heard the term "victim blaming" before?
Early Zionism was entirely peaceful. Zionists purchased land in Israel, and only settled portions of land where nobody was. They didn't displace any Arabs until the 40s, until after the Muftis broke bread with the Nazis, until after the Jews in the British mandate had been suffering under active Arab oppression and pogroms for decades.
I'm sick of you people coming at me with this stupid fucking logic. Look it up, it'll take less than a minute to find a few of the early pogroms in the British Mandate. I'm not responsible for educating you.
Sigh it's obvious that the second infifada doesn't count here. Do I need to state "rocket fire by Hamas-controlled Gaza" when we're obviously talking about Hamas-controlled Gaza?
How is the British mandate the late 1800s?
The security basis for... Shutting down peaceful protest, evicting Palestinians from their homes, not letting them participate
There was no way Israel was going to turn out as anything other than what it is now. A land ruled by nationalist Jews was inevitably going to oppress the Muslims in it, and it did.
absolute nazi take.
I thoroughly encourage anyone on the fence about the situation to read the article you linked because it is a fantastic example of how weak Israel's argument that they're not an apartheid state is. It's nothing but whataboutism and tokenism.