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Biden Warns Israel Not to Occupy Gaza
(www.nytimes.com)
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this post was submitted on 16 Oct 2023
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I'm not sure how anyone is taking this as a controversial take. Logistically, practically, and the urgent bloodthirst for revenge make this fucking hard to do. But this seems to me to be a pretty even keeled non polarizing take on a complex situation where there is justification for military action against a terrorist group, and that military action must be measured against the safety and needs of a civilian population.
It's not an even take, because he has not proposed taking out the extremists in Israel.
Not comparable. Israel is an ally, and needs our funding. Russia has been an advocacy or "enemy of my enemy" type more or less for a hundred years
Because Israel already occupies Gaza and other Palestinian areas.
Israel withdrew from Gaza in 2005, where the hell are you getting your information?
Israel still controls all traffic, imports, utilities, and ingress/egress from the area (if it didn't, they wouldn't have been able to cut off power, water, and aid). Israel "withdrawing from Gaza" doesn't really mean much unless Gaza has elected representation and can sustain itself.
Gaza literally has a border with egypt and sea.
In addition, controlling imports and exports is fully reasonable when there is a terrorist organization in power.
It’s funny because your comment is literally meaningless. Which terrorist organization are you referring to? Hamas or Israel?
There is just one terrorist organization in this conflict.
False. There are 2. One has killed about 1400 people, the other has killed over 8000 in the last week alone.
Hamas is the terrorist organization in the conflict. Who else? Israel? Not really, they literally were the ones attacked and at the same time it’s pretty much the only state in middle east where people have human rights. There is no oppression from the government (despite the fact I personally disagree with many decisions of the current leadership), there are regular elections, etc. I don't see how this is a terrorist behavior.
There is a huge difference when you purposefully just because of their religion and when you kill civilians because there are terrorists hiding between them.
I don’t care what their reasons for killing children are. I only care that they are indiscriminately killing them. That makes them terrorists by any definition.
But you should. Because that’s the difference between people being killed by a terrorist attack and people being killed while chasing terrorists.
No. You shouldn’t care. Killing children makes you a terrorist no matter what. There’s no justification. Especially not as disproportionate retaliation.
Each time you are in a war, you kill innocents and children, as well. It's sad but true. If you consider every state who killed children in a war at some point a terrorist state, then pretty much every single state would be a terrorist one.
Hamas has been ruining civilians' lives for ages. If there would not be a radical step taken against them, they would continue to rule and eventually kill more people than in a conflict like this.
We already had this in WWII. USA threw 2 nuclear bombs at Japan and killed many innocents. However, if they hadn't done that, war would have continued for another, let's say, 20 years which would eventually mean even more deaths.
Hence why I believe that killing more people now in order to preserve more lives in the future is worth it.
On the other hand, it would be definitely the best solution if both israel and palestine had their own state which cares about people.
Israel has been subjugating Palestinians for almost 80 years, literally funded Hamas and called them a necessary evil, and is now currently in the process of creating and recruiting the next generation of terrorists. Israel, as a government, is more of a terrorist org than Hamas is.
It’s honestly sad that you think this.
Why? Because it's true? If you think Israel is justified in what it's doing to disproportionately kill this many people and children, then surely you have to agree that Hamas and Palestinians (in whatever group they form) are they also justified to retaliate against Israel since Israelis are killing innocent civilians... You'd be a hypocrite otherwise. Death is death. Genocide is not justified here.
I believe Israel has the right to respond and attempt to destroy Hamas. It’s a war, there will always be civil causalities. The difference is that whilst one side is the only democratic state in the Middle east, the other one is a terrorist organization which has no place in this world.
I am not saying Israel is 100% innocent. I believe the actions in West Bank are debatable at least but 7th Octobre was nothing but an attempt to genocide. And it was started by Hamas, not Israel.
What nonsense. You just ignore the last 80 years because Oct. 7th is an easy date for you to remember or what?
If Israel has a right to respond, then you're a hypocrite for saying that Palestine doesn't have a right to respond to the last 80 years. This is why they're both terrorists. Both of them are literally trying to achieve their ends via terror.
What do you mean by past 80 years? For the past 80 years, Palestine was given many opportunities to create their own state. They agreed to none. All Palestines have been doing were just stupid attacks that attempted to kill people.
However, I agree with you that Israel is not innocent. It would generally create less tension if they did not keep inhibiting the west bank area. Still, at least they could have accepted a compromise.
How naive. Why did the Palestinians decline the proposed agreements? It’s not “their own state” if Israel still has control over their utilities, travel, supplies, and economy.
I honestly have no clue why Palestinians declined all the offers.
But why israel has a control over their economy and stuff? Because most of the resources end in Hamas's hands and are misused.
Ok. So you have no idea what you’re talking about… Thanks for confirming.
How would you know that they’re misused when Hamas has never had control of those things? Israel funded Hamas. Hamas’ entire demand from Israel is self-governance and an end to their occupation/subjugation.
how do I know they are misused? Simply by using eyes. how come they have so many tunnels and rockets while their citizens are starving?