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this post was submitted on 17 Oct 2023
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Hamas decided to be terrorists and killed innocent Israelis. Israeli leadership decided to be terrorists and killed innocent Palestinians. Both are killing innocent to send messages instead of doing anything that actually solves the issue peacefully and respectfully.
FFS
I would argue that Israel is killing civilians so they can move colonists in to replace them. It's been their MO for about 100 years.
The problem is using religiosity as the rationale for their respective positions, that makes them irrational and intransigent from the outset. This is why religious states/theocracies are incompatible with modernity.
Both the Israeli government and Hamas start from the position that the supposed creator of existence chose THEM to have dominion over this shitty plot of desert. You can't reason with that. You can't negotiate with that.
The truth is, there are 2 countries where 1 should be, and without guaranteed secular, representative inclusion in that government, which neither side largely wants including civilians because magical thinking, there can be no peace.
Im sorry, I see any nation state beholden to or dictated by religious dogma to be regressive and even primitive. We know too much about the nature and composition of the universe to defer to dead people's high fantasy delusions that were obvious attempts to explain a complex world without the tools or knowledge to pursue the logical, complex answers.
Religion isn't the actual cause of most conflict, that would be power/wealth, but it is by far the most popular, and most widely accepted blank check for rationalizing conflict.
Respecting your beliefs is unimportant in the face of kids being killed in the name of those beliefs. I don't care if you pray to Pikachu every morning at 2am, you do you. The moment you kill, oppress, or sanction such acts against real people in the name of Pikachu, fuck you and fuck your pokemon religion.
That, and oil.
That's often the actual reason for conflict in modernity, religion is one possible validation, but America's favorite is "Look at those suffering, oppressed people who happen to be sitting on billions of oil dollars in bubbling crude. WE MUST USE OUR BENEVOLENT MIGHT TO BRING 🇺🇸FREEDOM🇺🇸 TO THESE PEOPLE...and integrate their oil, I mean their people, into the virtuous, global, free market!"
What about suffering, oppressed people not sitting on petrochemicals/rare earth metals/etc?
"Fuck em. We can't be the world's police after all🇺🇸."
I agree wholeheartedly with religious governments can go f themselves but disagree on none of them should exist. If the holocaust demonstrated anything, when minorities don't have national representation their oppression is ignored by the entire world until its too late. The Jews need some sort of safehaven. Claiming Israel was a bit of a dick move tho, although I'm more inclined to blame the British for just sorta washing their hands of the mess they made of this situation. Also sadly even today it isn't entirely affective, the uighurs for example are oppressed and no one cares (perhaps because they don't have an uighur government petitioning for release or freedoms, I'd hope Muslim countries would support them but their also pretty much all corrupt at the political level so who can really make the difference).
I know hamas are no saints but id argue the border attacks are self defense as israel has created a humanitarian nightmare by blocking any access to their border. Theyve not had adequate food, water, or electricity
I understand where you are coming from but attacking civilians is not self defense in any sense of the word.
Tell that to all the nations lining up to call Israel bombing civilians self-defense.
Funny how that works isn't it? Israeli leaders have lots of political friends in the west, and Palestinians don't. Look who comes to the instant defence while ignoring the root causes of the attack to begin with.
Totally agree. The West is too invested in Israel, always has been. An ethno state is never a good idea.
And I would because that is also not self defense. Everything happening in Israel right now and the past decades is 100% the fault of Israel and it's appalling that they are just getting away with war crimes. That said, attacking civilians does not help the Palestinians.
How do you regain access to your border without attacking it? How do you think Israel started enforcing that border blockade? They killed the palestinians there. Israeli politicians arent gonna waltz up to the border for hamas to attack instead.
The common thread of all the attacks is they were all immediately on the border, like some within just a mile.
Yeah, Israel set up neighborhoods as a human shield, the policies of Israel are absolutely evil and shouldn't be allowed. That being said, Hamas attacking civilians does nothing to help Palestinians.
Doing nothing does nothing to help palestinians. Protesting does nothing to help palestinians. Humanitarian efforts do nothing to help palestinians because israel blocks them out. At some point theyre gonna lash out for survival.
And attacking Israeli citizens gets an instant genocide.
They already were being killed off.
Love how its hiding behind children when israel kills the children bombing deep into Gaza, but heinous killing of innocent civilians when Hamas attacks the very edge of Israel.
As is tradition.