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this post was submitted on 18 Oct 2023
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Yep. The guys a piece of shit but pieces of shit are not born that way. That level of hate is learned.
Yes, but it’s partly learned through conscious choice. He continued engaging with it, he chose his content.
I think that members of a cult are partly responsible for some evil they do. Like I don’t care if you’ve been raised to believe that Warren Jeffs is a prophet, if you marry your prepubescent daughter to him you did that. And you bear some responsibility for not walking away beforehand (and frankly that’s more intense than condervativism because they will actively try to ruin your life over it). I think the people holding guns at Jonestown bore some responsibility too. David Miscavage isn’t some innocent duped by L Ron Hubbard, he chose to stick with Scientology and then act on it in evil ways. And as an adult he could’ve made a better decision.
Some victims bear no responsibility, but once you move to doing fucked up shit to others over it you do bear some responsibility. Because you could’ve walked away at any point and while it requires a lot of strength to do it, when it comes to choosing between being strong and hurting others we have a responsibility.
When you do a mass shooting after partaking in your own radicalization you are partly responsible for it.
I said partly. No fucking shit Jones was influencing him. You don’t get drug addicts without both a supplier and consumer. Jones sells hate and delusion, this guy bought it and took it to deadly extremes. What I’ll also add is that jones sells normalization, militarization, and justification of it. Together they made this problem, both bear the responsibility.
I absolutely firmly disagree with your second paragraph but your first is absolutely correct.
What I interpreted from you was absolving him of his responsibility to walk away. It doesn’t mean we throw away the key or we don’t try to resolve the other causes, it means we also work to create a society that encourages walking away from content that radicalizes people to violence and hate. That we create alternatives for them. That we establish the understanding that one behavior is the right thing to do in a situation. We do this in addition to breaking apart the alt right pipeline because we need to develop more societal resilience to hate sellers.
I apologize for misinterpreting you initially.
I don’t want him in prison for the sake of punishment, but to keep society safe from him until rehabilitation can happen. And I’m going to continue fighting to reform prison so it actually attempts to use evidence based rehabilitation instead of just hurting people stuck in cages.
Now frankly I’m done here because it’s late and I really don’t like accusatory arguing for several paragraphs over moral responsibility with strangers on the internet.
The two aren't necessarily mutually exclusive.