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this post was submitted on 20 Oct 2023
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I don't like Hammas, specially because they were funded by Israel to attack Fattah and other members of the PLO in the 80' and spread terror until today.
But right now Hammas is trying to negotiate to release their hostages, but for Israel is more important to bomb Gaza (supposedly Hammas, cause of course there is no secular civilians in Gaza) than the safety of their own citizens.
Its not like Israel could still attack Hammas after the deal, you know?
Hamas can release the hostages at any second. There are no negotiations required for Hamas to cease their active imprisonment of kidnapped people.
But the hostages are likely the only thing standing in the way of a full blown ethnic cleaning.
However, don't confuse this with me defending Hamas in any way.
Wow - just wow.
So to put this into perspective: You are saying that Hamas PREEMPTIVELY took civilian hostages, while massacring more than a thousand other civilians, to PREVENT a „full blown ethnic cleaning“ in Gaza? An alleged ethnic cleaning that now is supposed to take place AFTER Hamas and the Islamic Jihad Terrorists murdered all those civilians?
Noooo… this is not defending Hamas and Islamic Jihad at all. But I do question your ability for reasoning.
Not at all.
Them taking the hostages was horrible in the first place and likely no real forethought was had for that plan.
But, after Israel's war crimes and them showing no sign of slowing down, it is likely the hostages have been one of the only reasons the careless bombings and killings of thousands of civilians (half of which are children) haven't been even worse (as unfathomable as it may seem)
Yeah, it sounds in your posts like Hamas are the good guys, care about the hostages, trying to release them against Israel will. Of course this is after Hamas without provocation brutally killed 1500 civilians, and captured those hostages. But of course, it is Israeli fault.
I don't get what part of
You read as
You are fighting a strawman my friend.
I was just responding the point that still exists hostages in Gaza, I don't expect that Hammas cares about hostages but I expect that Israel care about their citizens, because the first is a militia, and other is a state with one of the best army in the world.
Independently of what I believe or not, when Israel says "we don't negotiate with terrorists", it is just a political decision, maybe even this negotiation would not work, but is not something that Israel strategists are venting.
Ok, fair enough. You should also notice them that Israel still did not start the ground offensive.
Sure only if you ignore the past 80 years of brutal oppression and colonisation.
You should look for the meaning of “provocation “ when we talk about brutality killing 1500+ civilians. If you point to history as provocations, then Jews can give you a looooooong list of 3000+ years “provocations “ and where would it lead us?
I guess it makes sense to not claim things like "without provocation" in this context. Especially when you're aware the other side disagrees.
It is especially important to point to this and discuss this with the other side, otherwise what we achieve if we avoid topics on our disagreement? As for provocation, the attack was prepared for multiple months, and likely years. If anything provoked this attack at this particular time, it is the prospects of normalization with other Arab states such as Saudi Arabia. Hamas wants to destroy Israel, it does not need normalization.