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It’s an Absolutely Terrifying Night in Gaza Right Now
(www.yahoo.com)
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this post was submitted on 28 Oct 2023
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Except that Ukraine attacking Russia was a lie. Russia and hamas are aggressors.
Ukraine attacking Russia was a lie, Israel ethnic cleansing Palestine is reality.
The sad news in reality is more people and more and more get killed every hour. I just can't watch it anymore.
I just ate breakfast and watched the news. It is easy.
If you say so. Still it didn't worth it to plan and perform that October 7th aggression. To think how much time and resources that required and how much stuff could be done instead to actually improve the lives of Palestinians, it's sad and should be embarrassing.
Hamas obviously doesn’t give the slightest fuck about Palestinians’ wellbeing.
Right? If they cared they wouldn't have attacked.
The median age of Palestinians is 18 which means more than half weren't alive for the vote of Hamas. Now, Hamas has dismantled any democracy so they can't even take a diplomatic route. And Israel keeps bombing them making sure they continue the system of oppression which in turn spawns more radicals.
Oh, look... more white supremacists blaming the colonized for their own genocidal colonization.
Israel are white ?
Gee, I wonder what this reminds me of?
It's almost like it reminds me of some other fundamentally white supremacist country I can't quite put my finger on right now.
Don't help me... it's on the tip of my tongue!
What are you talking about ???
And that's their main problem. You can't be responsible government if you don't care about your citizens. You can't rely on the rest of the world to save your citizens while you continue aggression.
Well you could say that with the money Israel is burning for the terrorist action these days it could have found a way to keep its citizens alive.. and still here we are.
These kind of arguments don't really help do much progress, do they?
The only result is that I lost you half way.
You can't imagine how much money were burned on iron dome alone. All to save lives and try to show terrorists they should do something else with their lives.
And yet..
Yeah... imagine if Jewish people spent their energy appeasing Nazis instead of doing the "Jewish Bolshevism" which forced those poor white supremacists to go on a genocidal rampage - tsk, tsk.
(/s - for the people on here that aren't rabid white supremacists like the one I'm responding to)
I got temp banned from lemmy.ml for saying that. Basically said "except Ukraine didn't attack Russia first", then got the banhammer. A quick Google on their point (cant even remember what it was) and I knew it was bullshit. I blocked lemmy.ml right after
Yeah, it gradually became a tankie instance :/
I mean they took .ml because it's short for marxist-leninist. They've always been as bad as grad
Ahh, didn't know that. Interesting tidbit of true, thanks.
Bullcrap. Israel has been invading Palestine since 1949.
Invading unprovoked?
There is such a thing as "provoked" white supremacist settler-colonialism?
I mean... yeah if you count back to the time after Hamas's creation.
why do you think Hamas exists at all lol?
It doesn't matter as long as their are not doing what is better for them, or Palestinians. Spoiler: attacking Israel like they did on October 7th was not going to do any good.
Attacking Palestinians now will not do any good. Hamas is not good and committed a terrorist act. An atrocity. Hundreds injured and dead.
Palestine has 7000 dead including 3000 children from just this month. More children dead than any entire year of any other war of the last 3 years, including Ukraine.
There are over a hundred times as many dead Palestinian kids as Israeli. We should mourn both, but we should keep in contact the numbers too.
Attacking hamas will. It was done before and it helped with stopping attacks, for a while but still.
That information comes from hamas. Terrorists should not be trusted. It's enough to know that there are casualties. Even one death is a tragedy.
And no, these are not exactly comparable. Russia has no good reasons to invade Ukraine. Israel has good reasons to invade Gaza.
Attacking Hamas is not happening, but nobody denies that attacking Hamas is justified. Attacking Palestinians in general as an alternative in the hope that some of Hamas is swept up is a war crime.
That information comes from the Palestinians health authority which is considered pretty accurate. Every death is a tragedy, yes, so 3000 kids tragedies is 100 times the tragedies of the 30.
Israel does not have good reason to "invade" Gaza. They are using terrorist attacks to justice genocide. Genocide is never justified.
I don't think your assumption that Israel can only "attack Palestinians in hopes to harm hamas" is correct. They wouldn't warn anyone otherwise and we know they did that a lot of times. Also their counter strikes would've been much more effective if they wouldn't do that.
There are no authorities in Gaza except hamas. Gaza is fully controlled by terrorists. If there would be such an authority I'm sure they wouldn't allow building military objects under hospitals.
Think you mistyped "justify". Israel doesn't need to justify defending from terrorists. Hamas, on the other hand, has a record of using Palestinians as a shield and not caring to protect them at all.
Hamas using them as a shield does not make killing them right.
Israel is not defending itself from terrorism. It is retaliation for a terrorist attack.
They do have some intelligence as to where Hamas use as locations etc however rules of war require they take precautions to minimise civilian casualties. They give some warnings as this gives plausible deniability that they are taking precautions. The number of dead civilians versus confirmed Hamas killed tells a different story. Telling people to leave but closing the border tells a different story. Telly people to leave one area then bombing the path they were told to take tells a different story.
Hamas is the de facto government, but Palestine is not recognized as a state so there is not really a government, as most in other countries would know it, especially western counyries. Guess who is preventing normalisation of their sovereignty? Last elections were 17 years ago. The youngest people to vote are now over 35. 50% of the population is under 18. So, the legitimacy of saying they voted for this is spurious at best. Remember Israel and netamyahu in particular stifled their competitors.
Incessant bombing of civilians is creating more terrorists, not less. That doesn't make it right, but to make out like Israel is defending itself while killing thousands of children is ridiculous. Israel as a state is a de facto terrorist state too at this point
It makes hamas responsible for their death. Otherwise, you are suggesting leaving alone terrorists who asked you to not bomb them, and who will still proceed to bomb you.
Hamas launched rockets regularly. And you're saying Israel only now started to retaliate? They must be very lazy, yes? Or maybe it's because they have been shown they had to do it, as defending-only way no longer works.
Wow, people do what they have to do and you are saying they are doing it with malicious intention.
What versus what exactly? One side is Israel who is monitored by the whole world, and the other is a territory controlled by terrorists. Numbers coming from the latter are useless without further confirmations.
Did Israel close the border? I know Egypt did. Can't blame Israel if they did so.
Proceed to demand explanation if you like. I doubt they would waste resources to do something that useless.
If they really wanted to become a proper country with proper government they would at least try. Instead they are focused on trying to do the impossible - winning the war versus Israel, using stones and sticks.
Those are useless details that can't justify anything.
Irrelevant. You are proposing basically that hamas is the best Palestinians can get, and I strongly disagree.
Israel is responsible for the Palestinians dead, not Hamas. The question is whether they are justified in killing the Palestinians. It is a war crime to kill indiscriminately without care to avoid civilian casualties. That's why I mention about the performative warnings. They are not genuine nor helpful.
Hamas launched rockets for years. Israel kicked Palestinians out of settlements and killed them for years. Again, one side being terrible doesn't make the other good. Look at the statistics of how many Israel is died versus how many Palestinians. Your logic that Israel has a right to defend itself goes both ways.
Yes Israel closed the border. And cut off supplies of food water and medical supplies. Thousands of children are being treated in hospitals for burns covering over 40% of their bodies with no available general anesthesia. That is cruelty and inhumane.
I agree, Palestinians can do better than Hamas. Guess who stifled funding for their competition? Israel, or more specifically, Netamyahu. There has been calls for a Palestine state for decades, including negotiations with USA helping intervene. They were abandoned due to both sides not budging. Again, no good side, just bad on both, with innocent people dying in the meantime.
You say that Hamas is the government then ignore the problems with legitimacy of Hamas. You ignore that the Palestinians want to be a state but most other countries refuse to recognize it. They already consider themselves a state. Youre not following logic or using similar metrics for each side, so I'm going to leave it here. I hope you continue to learn more as you seem to be arguing from a place of propaganda rather than facts. We are all susceptible to propaganda, so that's not a dig at you but I thought worth pointing out.
And there is a chance Israel will be held responsible for this, as it should work. It won't work like that with hamas, and this is wrong.
I don't think it works like that. They are justified in defending against and trying to prevent terrorists attacks. History shows it is somewhat effective. What hamas does though, is shown as not effective, from what I understand. Therefore it can't be justified.
It's not Israel's actions but hamas' actions and attitude that makes you think what's happening can be called "killing indiscriminately". Usually when you are at war you try to protect your citizens and keep them away from any war actions. It goes without saying that it doesn't how hamas sees the world. They think they can spend zero resources on protection and use collateral damage as a weapon by saying "hey look how many of us they killed, it's unfair because we killed less". This logic is flawed. If they could they'd kill many more. If they could they'd kill every single jew - that's what they publicly declared in their manifest basically. Israel is much different from that and we can't assume they'd kill every Palestinian if they could.
See above where I explained the difference in deaths and why it's only natural. Hamas does not defend itself, it only uses hostages as live shields. Also tunnels. Tunnels under hospitals too, probably.
It should not be the responsibility of Israel to provide resources to Gaza if Gaza did nothing to try to become independent. Yes, this can be judged and I'll let all responsible people and representatives to do the judgement. But hamas produced rockets, not anesthesia. This is cruelty and inhumane.
You can't blame one person for a failure of the whole state to become a proper country. If it takes that little to do so much then Palestine is in no shape to do anything and they must improve their situation first.
Figure out why then try to fix it?
With how reliant they are on the rest of the world, I doubt this consideration can be viewed seriously by anyone.
I mean, one side is a country with relatively serious army and the other one is controlled by terrorists who declare they will rid the world of a whole nation, build nothing but missiles and tunnels, use hostages and demand the whole world to fund and protect them. Metrics are different, yes. Maybe if hamas starts doing something logical we'll talk.
I take it you think this "war" started when Hamas attacked them this year?
Israel has been occupying Palestine for decades.
Aggression. Aggression that showed Israel's way of defense can no longer work and that terrorists won't stop.
As for the occupation, there is no use in arguing because the bigger issue is logic. It was obvious from the start that this action would not have chances to bring any good end to the situation for Palestinians. No matter what real or fake reasons are, it was foolish. Attacking Israel because of occupation (with weapons like that) is like stabbing yourself with a knife because you have a flu.
Oh so only the Israelis are allowed to show aggression? The Palestinians just have to take it in silence?
Until they have a chance to actually change anything for good for themselves - yes. Palestinians couldn't unsteal the lands so October 7th was useless. Israel will be able to prevent terrorists attack for a few years so the ground operation is not useless
Or, hamas could just surrender and release all hostages to immediately stop what's happening right now.
That is deranged and inhuman.
Deranged an inhuman is to do terrorism, knowing that not only people are going to die, but your people are, too, going to die and suffer as a result. There is zero "protection" or "justice" in these actions and trying to justify them with anything like "but they are occupiers so it's okay to attack them" is beyond foolish.
Expecting humans to act like robots is quite literally inhuman. They're pissed off and desperate. That has not not ever in human history resulted in negotiations. This entire line of reasoning is only meant to make Palestinians look like violent savages when the reality is this is how Apartheid and anti colonial struggles have always looked.
Expecting humans to not resort to useless terrorism is nothing like that.
Doesn't mean they can kill anyone and remain unaffected by consequences.
I'm not sure I understand this sentence. What is "that"? What is "not not"?
I'm not even trying to make Plaestinians look bad and I know some of them really want to kill (some did killed) jews in order to become heroes. They are victims of hamas in several ways, but it doesn't save them. Why? Because Gaza is at war, and, as a war participant, it's unique in how it doesn't care about its civilians during a war. Hamas' only defense is hostages, and Palestinians are not much different from hostages. That's why there may be a lot of casualties, not because Israel is "a bloody monster" or whatever.
I think everyone should drop the whole apartheid/colonialism thing and realize that it can't be solved with current hamas' approach. Maybe it could be solved if Gaza cared to make itself a proper country, to become independent, sustainable and responsible. Maybe also abandoning radical religion could help.
If the Palestinians are hostages why isn't Israel allowing them to leave the combat area?
I'm done here. You're still asserting that this collective punishment is some kind of natural response to the Hamas attack but are completely ignoring any human nature on the side of the Gazans. They have to remain ultra rational while being shot at but the Israelis are allowed to have emotion.
Israel's response is closer to natural response than what hamas is doing. You don't have to be ultra rational to understand there is no way to achieve their goal (to kill all Jews) and to remain in a normal relationship with the rest of the world.
Israel demonstrates some emotional reactions, yes. But the core logic is still there: as before, the ground operation is started only when the point of "iron dome is no longer enough to keep terrorists at place" is reached.