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this post was submitted on 06 Nov 2023
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You can't blame the children dieing on anyone but the people responsible for actually dropping the bombs and shooting the bullets.
Violence is almost never the answer, and indiscriminate violence actually never ever is.
No one but the children are without fault in this conflict, but still far too many (more than 0) children pay the ultimate price. You can wage war without killing children, it just costs more. But if you can't pay that price then the war can't ever be considered just.
A 16 year old is a child, right? Let's look at some semi-hypotheticals and you tell me who you think is to blame:
War is hell, and it is complicated. Child soldiers will die, and there will be civilians caught in the crossfire. The is no track for this trolley that has 0 children. Any military has to balance the number of civilians killed vs the risk to its own soldiers vs the likelihood of killing their intended targets. If you expect them to sacrifice hundreds or thousands of soldiers just to avoid a few civilians, you grossly misunderstand how the world works. Most military forces will certainly be unwilling to sacrifice a single soldier for a single civilian, even on their own side.
Then Israel must be punished for their disproportionate response.
What is proportionate to the brutal murder of 1400 people, including women and children?
What is proportionate to the ongoing rocket barrages on civilians?
Seriously though - what do you think Israel would do if you were in their shoes? Would you unconditionally surrender and allow Hamas to commit genocide?
I would ask what you think is proportionate to the 10,000 dead civilians on the other side of the fence but I'm not going to do that, math is clearly not your strong suit. I hope they haunt you forever. I'm not a religious ethnostate, if I was in their shoes I would take them the fuck off.
Well killing 10,000 people is not exactly proportional. I guess technically it is since that proportion works out to 50:7.
I would move out of the area I occupied. I would feel bad for displacing an entire people for my own fucked up notion of the afterlife. I would feel horrible for allowing my government to perform genocide. I would feel powerless to change anything, but not powerless to stop supporting that government. I would sell any asset in the country, and start over somewhere else.
There is no "complicated political situation". There are only facts. 70 years ago, an invading army took over Palestinian land with the help of the UN and UK and most superpowers. Now there are those in Palestine who fight it and are being exterminated, and those who accept it and are still being exterminated, because Israel's intent has always been to seize control of the region and drive darker skinned people out, and this has been a selling point for the terrorist state of Israel to be established ever since day one, which is proven by letters from the 1940s between zionists and their supporters.
Your copypasta is old - it's been 75 years since 1948.
Your opinions are old. It's been 75 years since 1948.
You're just apologizing for war. Why? What's so good/important about war that you need to defend it? Why is it insane to expect nations to not kill civilians?
War is not a good solution and it should never be the first solution. But it exists and burying your head in the sand and pretending it doesn't exist is just naive.
By the way, every single one of those examples is real and relatively recent. Today, a 16 year old kid stabbed two border police in Jerusalem and was shot dead by a third. In May 2022, a 16 year old girl was ordered to stand next to an Israeli jeep while they were in a firefight with PIJ fighters. A 13 year old shot two people in January and was killed by one of the men he shot. There have been more than a few talking heads that have claimed the last one, but I doubt there will be any credible news reporting on it.
These are just a handful of examples from recent times. Most of them won't compare to what happens inside Gaza where the fog of war is going to be thick and intentionally so by both sides.
When kids kill you for trespassing on their land, maybe it's time to get the fuck out.
Legally and morally yes in amongst every country. Including Israel.
Ed: I should say according to the talmud no one is adult until 18.
Well, I can see you're not from Iran
I can only find this reference for the Talmud, which is pretty clear that it's only a recommendation to marry at 18 instead of 13
We're not talking about Iran.
The law in Israel civilly is 18, the rest is fairly basic and obvious.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dina_d%27malkhuta_dina#:~:text='the%20law%20of%20the%20Government,be%20preferred%20to%20Jewish%20law.
Did you perhaps mean "almost"? I thought you were taking the absolutist stance that the age of majority is always 18.
How does a citation from Shulchan Arukh suddenly become "according to the Talmud"? It's literally not part of it.
Yes almost.
Talmidic interpretation matters especially those that are accepted by the majority of that group and that's ignoring the fact that religious law is second to civil law in Israel so the talmudic interpretation is supporting but not definitive, civil law is.