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this post was submitted on 13 Jul 2023
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When the crops are dead and the water dried up. Then people will start to take notice. But by then, it's already too late.
Both of those progressing nicely in Spain, and the result was... a rise of the right, that has doubled down on destroying the aquifers in the south, the most affected region.
So the worse things become, the more people turn a blind eye to the issue.
Humans deserve to burn up
The world is 70% water.
Edit.
Another fact, water is wet.
Water is not going to dry up... What a weird comment, climate change means more rain, not less
almost all of it not directly usable
It is
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seawater_greenhouse
Two inputs, solar and seawater
Do you think 100% of our population and agriculture lives by the coast? Sure we have elaborate and resource intensive solutions to the problem, we could eventually just move the whole population(what's left) into domed cities by the coast, but it be better to just not fuck up our environment constantly and hold those that do accountable.
Not sure what point your trying to make her but it's not a good one.
I work in agtech, there's plenty of solutions, vertical farming, genetic engineering for drought resistance.
Point I'm making is that the water is not going to dry up because it covers 70% of the earth's surface, not sure why that's a contentious issue when it's a basic fact that rain is increasing.
It's a salt issue, and desalination would also enable lithium and other rare earth metal mining without destroying habitats
Those big tech solutions always strike me as a very complicated way of solving a very simple problem. The Iberian peninsula is drying out because people (and their animals) are turning it into a desert. Look at Extremadura and many other places in Spain (and Portugal, to a somewhat lesser extent) - what ever happened to the trees? If we allowed trees and the connected biodiversity to return we could also retain water in the landscape more efficiently. And the best about this is that it doesn't need high-tech anything. It really just requires to think twice before you chop down a tree. Actually, do less. Cut less, plough less, stop transporting stuff around ... just chill, and the planet can chill as well.
That doesn't feed 10 billion people though. CEA industrialises nature, but not in nature. If it's powered by renewables, it's pretty much net zero. Uses no pesticides or herbicides, no runoff and the water is reused for a year by filtering and using reverse osmosis.
I used to talk your talk, because I parroted it from other smart guys in Academia. Then I got into small scale gardening and permaculture, and started studying traditional food production. I have to tell you, big ag has been lying big time about their efficiency. Yes, they can produce more per hectar of one crop, but that takes an enormous input of fossil fuel, heavy machinery, fertilizers. In a permaculture system you might not get a ton of x per hectare, but 100kgs of x, 200kgs of y, 300kgs of z ... with less input of fossil fuel and less environmental destruction. Of course if you just count the tons of grain, industrial ag wins. But you have to count both input and output plus long term sustainability to know which system really works better. Combine animals, plants, mushrooms, microorganisms in the right way and you can create a very resilient, nutrition-dense system with little energy needs. Spain is turning itself into a dust bowl for the profit of the few, and a lot of the monoculture propaganda is made up and spread by landgrabbers who are too happy to buy up smaller farms in the name of 'efficiency' and 'feeding the multitudes' - it just sounds so much better than 'I bought my neighbors land because I have more money than him'.
I suggest you visit a well-run forest agriculture and permaculture place to see how you can achieve results that are even more positive than huge technological solutions like vertical farms or desalination water lines crossing the land.
With renewables only the energy itself is an 'infinite' source (nothing is infinite, but for example solar is quite infinite in our terms, geothermal a little less so). The mechanisms for harvesting said energy and for running vertical farms and desalination plants do need finite resources to be built and maintained, however, while a diverse ecosystem basically runs itself. Big engineering has become so normalized that we believe we need this to make a big impact, but I think we have to think smaller again. Big tech has brought us here, let's be a little more careful with it in the future.
It's not one or the other. Regenerative agriculture is great, but it's still very land intensive. The beauty of vertical farming is it can be placed in urban areas on brownfield sites which reduces food miles and provides jobs.
I would say the only environment where I would want to see such a thing is dense urban environments. But then, maybe we shouldn't have urban environments so dense that we have to build skyscrapers for our salads ...
If everyone spread out, we'd have about an acre each and no natural habitat.
It makes sense to have dense urban environments and to build up instead of out.
Either that or depopulation by moving into space or a cull...
This is the most "I work for a tech bro startup that has existed for 6 months, and has done nothing but beg investors for funding" comment I've ever seen.
8 years and have grown ups with plant science masters degrees and such, and no, funding round is closed. IPO next.
UK equities are cheap right now, lots of money looking at snapping up bargains, good times ahead :)
Of course there are solutions. Everyone knows solutions exist. We could, for example, work to stop global warming.
It's having affordable solutions that don't have massive side effects and that people are willing to do that's the problem.
Lots of organisations are already working to stop climate change
My problem is with the moaners who do nothing but use fossil fuels and plastics to moan about fossil fuels and plastics.
What do you expect? Most people are individually powerless to affect the sort of change that would actually be helpful. By "moaning" they at least make their discontent known to those who could affect change.
I disagree, you don't have to fix the world, just the bit you live in. There's plenty of community projects to install solar and insulation that people could get involved with instead.
"You don't have to fix anything just pretend like you're making a difference" What a crock of shit.
Oh cool, and how much energy does that desalination cost? And how do we generate that power?
Solar and eolic. The cost of which is dropping all the time. As soon as it's economically viable then desalination is a good idea. Especially if sodium ion battery tech pans out
https://www.electrive.com/2023/04/21/catl-and-byd-to-use-sodium-ion-batteries-in-evs-this-year/
Oh, wonderful! So third world, developing nations — who will need the water the most— will definitely all have access to not only large scale, very expensive tech (that doesn't even really exist yet) for desalination, but also the money, technology, and infrastructure to power all of it with renewable energy.
That's definitely how the world works.
A greenhouse and a pump aren't exactly high tech
Oh, so you don't even know how desalination works. If it were that cheap and easy, we would all be fucking doing it already, dumbass.
Maybe go learn something while the adults talk babe
https://www.sgsomaliland.com/story
so what you're saying is, that I'm right?
If it makes you happy, sure. But not really, climate change means warmer air and more rain as a result.
Controlled environment agriculture reduces water use by 95%...and we don't need to use anywhere near all the seawater, obviously
It's a feedstock for a large number of chemical syntheses
Or sodium ion batteries https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s40243-022-00208-1
Or eat it?
Stupidest fucking comment I've ever read in my life. Water doesn't dry up? Have you never seen a dry river bed? Or how about salt flats?
This is why we are doomed to die to climate change. People like you who are completely unwilling to even begin to understand the thing they refuse to accept.
Lol, you obviously don't read much then.
Obviously existing agriculture uses too much water, which is why there are alternatives such as CEA...
I work in a sector that is mitigating climate change, so I'd be interested to know what you're doing about it, other than stealing oxygen.
Fuck, he got me guys... I was totally lying about having an exciting profession like (checks notes), environmental engineering.
I notice you've stopped talking about water...
Lmao, please drink nothing but sea water for a few days then get back to me