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this post was submitted on 19 Nov 2023
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So these government goons get to invade someone's house, ignore their privacy, take pictures of their kids undressed, and claim "We're protecting children!" They will fight to hold onto that power.
There is a proven need for the service. But it needs to be better regulated, NOT privatized and states should have rules limiting worker's authority.
Better regulation is definity needed, in cases like this CPS themselves are practically the abusers.
Yup. They're supposed to be there for the welfare of the child AND family, not to act as judge and jury with zero compassion.
But if that's what their leadership (state and local) is teaching/telling them to do, it's time for a new government.
For real, the repeated interviews could be traumatizing to that child.
While this story is appalling - it's not a fight for power that's going on here. It's the justifiable fear that if they don't investigate they will be the social worker on the front page of the news paper with the headline "Child abused/dies after this official fails to act". As system based on good will and 'better safe than sorry' is being deliberately abused by the caller. There clearly need to be better mechanisms to prevent this, but it's not a trivial circle to square.
Prevention isn't feasible, but reaction certainly is. Caseworkers should be able to go after false complainants in extraordinary circumstances.
Good point. Aggravated false complaints feel like the should be a criminal matter
Since we are in agreement that the u justified complaints should be considered a criminal matter, we have to go back and look at the caseworker's actions again.
In complying with the criminal demand to act, the caseworker is now either another victim of that criminal act, or the caseworker is complicit in perpetrating that act of harassment. In the former case, the caseworker should be making their own criminal complaint against the perpetrator. In the latter, the caseworker should be joining the perpetrator in jail.
The caseworker is effectively another victim here, for the reasons I set out in my previous comment. There needs to be both an organisational framework and legal framework to support them. You say “t he caseworker should be making their own criminal complaint against the perpetrator”. What existing law is being broken? I don’t know - do you? If the complaints are anonymous how does an individual caseworker bring a complaint? Even if they bring the complaint in the belief that that the report is vexatious- does that mean that they are free to ignore the complaint? Or do they actually still need to che k it out?
You don't have to be the victim to file a criminal complaint. The laws being broken are harassment of the family, filing a false report, and probably a bunch of others.
"Qualified immunity" is the idea that so long as an agent of the state is acting responsibly and in good faith, they are immune from prosecution. Here, upon observing these criminal acts against the family, their responsibility is to make the criminal complaint. Failure to act should cost them their immunity and make them civilly and criminally liable for the harassment.
Edit: there is no such thing as an "anonymous" complaint. The 6th amendment guarantees the right to face one's accuser. By accepting and acting on the accusation, the state violates the victim's constitutional rights of it attempts to maintain the complainant's anonymity.
" there is no such thing as an “anonymous” complaint. The 6th amendment guarantees the right to face one’s accuser. By accepting and acting on the accusation"
... so if someone phones up from an unkown number and says 'Mrs X is abusing her kid", nothing gets investigated?
What I am saying is that the state is not really allowed to say they had an anonymous complaint. The victim can file a criminal complaint of harassment against the caller, and subpoena any identifying information. They can file a lawsuit for defamation and subpoena the information. If they don't cooperate with those subpoenas, they become complicit.
It's offensive to exaggerate like this, even just implied. Clearly they need to have some policy against harassment like this.
But when you're considering this, acknowledge that it's important for case workers to do things like inspecting the kids' back and thighs for bruises. It's important for case workers to be able to follow up on cases where they haven't initially proven abuse.
The article says, "The agency finds a safety situation requiring removal of a child from a home in only 4% of these cases." Only?!? You do realize how reluctant they are to remove kids. If they're actually removing kids in 4% of cases, there's gotta be significant abuse in at least 12% of cases, likely more.
CPS does an incredibly rough, difficult, and important job. The hate they get for it is insane. Rarely are things black and white. Just like you shouldn't hate them blindly (or at all), you also shouldn't support them unconditionally.
They have issues that need fixed, apparently in New York at least. We don't need excessive hate and hyperbole to get that done.
Do you have data to back this?
I'd go the other way on that one. "Contempt of caseworker" is a leading cause of removal action. I'd guess legitimate cases of significant abuse and neglect are probably closer to 1%.