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submitted 11 months ago by L4s@lemmy.world to c/technology@lemmy.world

Commercial Flights Are Experiencing 'Unthinkable' GPS Attacks and Nobody Knows What to Do::New "spoofing" attacks resulting in total navigation failure have been occurring above the Middle East for months, which is "highly significant" for airline safety.

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[-] thehatfox@lemmy.world 25 points 11 months ago

This sounds rather dangerous. GPS was originally opened up to civilian use for the purpose of keeping flights on course, after the disaster of Korean Air Flight 007 straying into Soviet airspace and being shot down back in the 1980s.

I can't understand what is to be gained by deliberately trying to knock civilian airliners off course.

[-] Forester@yiffit.net 20 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

GPS guided drone attacks. Civilian GPS top out at 300 m a second. Anything beyond that is a missile and GPS refuses to work unless you have one of the special government GPS chips without the limiter.

[-] CarbonIceDragon@pawb.social 4 points 11 months ago

Would that be relevant for a drone attack? I wouldn't think a drone that isn't operated by a state actor is likely to be moving that fast, and presumably a state actor could build their own chips without a limiter?

[-] billiam0202@lemmy.world 13 points 11 months ago

Thus the point of the spoofing. A drone will be moving much slower than 300 m/s, so spoofing GPS would be an attempt to force it off-course.

[-] CarbonIceDragon@pawb.social 2 points 11 months ago

Ah, I see, I misunderstood what you meant

[-] shortwavesurfer@monero.town 1 points 11 months ago

Are you meaning 300 measurements per second? Because civilian gps has an accuracy of ~3 meters. I may be misunderstanding though

[-] ironeagl@sh.itjust.works 9 points 11 months ago

The GPS chips have internal limits on how fast they think they can move. If they determine that they are moving faster than 300m/s they will stop outputting any results for a period of time. This limit is, IIRC, put in at the silicon level, so only military chips can bypass it.

If you try to use mapping apps on a plane you sometimes run into this issue.

[-] sanmarzano@lemmy.world 6 points 11 months ago

It is trivial to make your GPS receiver firmware ignore these limits. There are even open-source receivers (SwiftNav piksi, for example). Modifying a binary is much harder, but not impossible for a motivated state like Iran or Russia. It's best to think of the COCOM limits as suggestions.

[-] EarMaster@lemmy.world 3 points 11 months ago

But even the fastest airliners at the moment (A330 neo) moves slower than 300m/s. Wikipedia claims that COCOM limits are even higher so I don't think that they are the reason for the inaccurate tracking on planes.

There's also a height limit

[-] ironeagl@sh.itjust.works 2 points 11 months ago

Turns out it's 1000 knots (~600m/s), or 18,000 feet. So it's the altitude in this case. But a slow-moving drone at <18,000ft is fine.

[-] ironeagl@sh.itjust.works 1 points 11 months ago

Maybe a misapplication then. I've run into it with model rocketry before (for good reason)

[-] shortwavesurfer@monero.town 2 points 11 months ago

Oh, neat. I was not aware of that. I have seen that before but thought it was due to the phone not being able to lock on to the signal from inside a big metal tube.

[-] onlinepersona@programming.dev 5 points 11 months ago

Holy shit, that really happened? Just finished watching "For All Mankind" and recognized some events, but had no idea this one was real.

[-] _s10e@feddit.de 3 points 11 months ago

I can't understand what is to be gained by deliberately trying to knock civilian airliners off course.

You don't deal with terrorists, do you?

this post was submitted on 23 Nov 2023
426 points (98.9% liked)

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