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[-] spaceghoti@lemmy.one 9 points 11 months ago

Funny how Biden turned out to be a lot less centrist than we were expecting. The pendulum is swinging left, and if we don't keep pushing in the right direction the progress will stop. Just because we're not getting everything we want right now doesn't mean we're not in the process of getting there. So stop bitching about how you don't have the perfect candidate right now. Vote in the primaries for the most progressive candidates you can find, and then in the general election vote for the best candidate, even if it's not your preferred choice.

Adulthood is about dealing with the world as it is, not the world we insist we should have. We have to be the adults in the room when no one else is willing.

[-] grue@lemmy.world 17 points 11 months ago

We have to be the adults in the room when no one else is willing.

And in case anybody is wondering about the Republicans not being held to the same standard, that's a consequence of the fact that the changes progressives want require passing new legislation, whereas the changes Republicans want can be achieved through obstruction and sabotage.

[-] spaceghoti@lemmy.one 4 points 11 months ago

Just to clarify, I do want to hold Republicans to the same standards. I want their accountability to be conducted through electoral defeats and removing them from power. As difficult as it is to reform the Democrats into the progressive party we need them to be, such a feat is impossible with modern Republicans.

[-] grue@lemmy.world 5 points 11 months ago

Just to clarify, I do want to hold Republicans to the same standards.

Oh, sure, I didn't mean to imply otherwise. My comment was more about the practical/structural circumstances that allow them to get away with acting the way they do rather than being about how people feel about it, though.

[-] spaceghoti@lemmy.one 2 points 11 months ago

I wasn't assuming you were criticizing anything but Republican behavior. I merely wanted to add on to your comment.

[-] frezik@midwest.social 1 points 11 months ago

There's some interesting pieces that I think have gone unnoticed where rank and file Republicans do want something, but nothing happens. They don't seem to care.

For example, repealing the Hughes Amendment of 1986, which bans the registration of new machine guns for personal use. Lots of gun tote'n NRA members want that gone. Republicans could have easily done it after the 2016 election, where they had both houses of Congress and the White House.

IIRC, there were some bills submitted to committee, where they promptly died. That's it. The only meaningful changes to gun rights under Trump was declaring bump stocks illegal (which lets a semi-auto rifle be fired like a full-auto rifle).

Yet, you don't see any of those NRA members talking about this. They are still lockstep behind the Republican party. Take any equivalent issue on the left, and people want the Democratic party to burn down for not supporting it.

I think there's deep lessons to be learned there about how the rank and file treat their respective standard bearer political party.

[-] abraxas@sh.itjust.works 2 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

That's a solid point. The GOP couldn't get together to wipe out the ACA because many Republicans actually realized it would fuck them to do so. It was an absolute comical disaster.

They half-gutted it, but we still have enough of it to be far better off than pre-ACA days.

[-] grue@lemmy.world 1 points 11 months ago

Yet, you don’t see any of those NRA members talking about this. They are still lockstep behind the Republican party. Take any equivalent issue on the left, and people want the Democratic party to burn down for not supporting it.

I think there’s deep lessons to be learned there about how the rank and file treat their respective standard bearer political party.

This Alt-Right Playbook video does an excellent job of explaining that, IMO. (I linked to the specific timestamp where the explanation starts, but I recommend watching from the beginning for context.)

[-] krashmo@lemmy.world 3 points 11 months ago

Adulthood is about dealing with the world as it is, not the world we insist we should have.

Which is why centrist Democrats saw the polling data saying Bernie Sanders performed better against Trump than Clinton or Biden and decided to throw their support behind him in both elections rather than forcing us to stick with the candidate they wanted, right? Wait a minute...

[-] abraxas@sh.itjust.works -2 points 11 months ago

The same Berniecrats who could have had a progressive in the General in 2020 if they'd been willing to go for Warren (who was outpolling Bernie in the Primaries AND comparable in the General until the shitshow that cost them both the primary)

The thing with Primaries is that they're like RCV. The most votes wins the Primary. If your second choice isn't "whoever won the Dem primary", then you're the problem, whether your first was Biden, Bernie, or Elmo.

[-] spaceghoti@lemmy.one -3 points 11 months ago

You're talking about polling conducted eleven months ahead of the general election. Whatever you think you're doing, you're not participating in an adult conversation.

Goodbye.

[-] conductor@lemmy.ml 4 points 11 months ago

Okay well whatever you think you’re doing, you’re coming off as a chode.

[-] krashmo@lemmy.world 2 points 11 months ago
[-] lolcatnip@reddthat.com -4 points 11 months ago

Some people you don't like made a decision you disagreed with for reasons we aren't privy to, and that's somehow a rebuttal of needing to deal with the world as it is? Your comment is a demonstration of the problem.

[-] SCB@lemmy.world -4 points 11 months ago

Which is why centrist Democrats saw the polling data saying Bernie Sanders performed better against Trump than Clinton or Biden and decided to throw their support behind him in both elections rather than forcing us to stick with the candidate they wanted, right?

People don't like Bernie Sanders, so they didn't vote for him.

[-] Jaysyn@kbin.social 1 points 11 months ago

As a Sanders voter & 4 figure donator, I'm glad Biden was in the White House when Russia invaded Ukraine.

[-] frezik@midwest.social 1 points 11 months ago

More to the left than expected, but I wasn't expecting much. That's not a win.

[-] spaceghoti@lemmy.one 3 points 11 months ago

It's not perfect, therefore it's not enough? Seriously?

You should read this: https://www.logicallyfallacious.com/logicalfallacies/Nirvana-Fallacy

[-] frezik@midwest.social 4 points 11 months ago

I didn't claim that. I voted for Biden, and I expect to do so again. I would very much like a better candidate. Tossing around logical fallacies isn't a good look when you're also jumping to conclusions.

[-] spaceghoti@lemmy.one -1 points 11 months ago

Because you already provided the context needed to make a positive contribution to the discussion and avoid misunderstandings, right?

Right?

[-] frezik@midwest.social 2 points 11 months ago
[-] spaceghoti@lemmy.one -2 points 11 months ago

Oh look, a different thread! That sure clarifies things

[-] ira@lemmy.ml 0 points 11 months ago

Idk unlimited sales of arms to fascists like Itamar Ben-Gvir seems pretty far right to me

[-] MegaUltraChicken@lemmy.world 5 points 11 months ago

And enabling Trump to sell more arms to more fascists is better how?

[-] ira@lemmy.ml 1 points 11 months ago

I'd argue that Biden is the one enabling Trump here

this post was submitted on 27 Nov 2023
570 points (96.3% liked)

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