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this post was submitted on 02 Dec 2023
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What Google seems to forget or simply not care about is I can always just... leave.
I used reddit a lot more than I use YouTube.
If enough viewers and content creators were to jump ship, they'd scramble to change their tune.
That's a big if though. Unless an actual creator-exodus happens, it's not going to happen.
It will happen eventually. These kinds of adversarial arrangements between parties are inherently unstable. The enshittification cycle only ends when a site properly collapses. If you think they couldn't get shittier, give it time. They'll find a way.
All we need is for a good alternative to become more viable and for the site to have a few more exodus events and it'll lose its critical mass. Ultimately I think most platforms are going to have to become federated, it's the only way to avoid enshittification and still grow the network. Growing the network is important because it is the size of youtube and other centralised sites' networks that gives them their stability and utility. It's the network effect.
This is where the biggest challenge lies. Doing what YouTube does is not easy. I don't think anyone could do it all. So it would have to be picking a choosing. Can anyone upload hours/days/years worth of video content? Are the people who put up those videos able to get paid without having to create their own relationships with advertisers or asking for viewer donations? How are copyright violations handled? Or more sinister video content?
Peertube is a federated system that already handles video.
Moderation is handled by instances with more personal mods.
Bandwidth is handled via multiple instances & p2p protocols so viewers help distribute the load.
I think you're overstating how difficult youtube's job is. A lot of that work is problems youtube creates for thsmselves by trying to squeeze their platform for more money. A federated platform doesn't have that issue.
Yes, things get easier when you take paying creators out of the mix.
Why do they even do that. Instagram, tiktok don't share their ad revenue with their content creators.
Not sure. But it is one of the cornerstones of YouTube. Also tiktok does pay creators.
Youtube pays creators basically nothing.
$10-$30/1,000 views doesn't sound like much. Except the people who make a career out of YouTube are regularly producing 100k+ view videos. It adds up. It's one of the things you can pick and choose to leave out of a competitor. But it is a major reason why people put videos on YouTube.
That's the absolute top end. Most accounts see 50 cents per thousand.
Why lie?
Do you have a source for that? What are you basing it on?
Idk, what are your sources? What the fuck? You wanna demand sources, gib first.
So did you just make up a number? I did try some searching before I spat out mine. It wasn't extensive research and figured anyone doing any cursory check would come away with the same answer. Which is why I didn't bother linking anything. I couldn't find anything that said as low as $0.50/1000 and have never heard a creator saying that low. Hence me asking where you got your number.
https://blog.hootsuite.com/how-much-does-youtube-pay-per-view/
https://influencermarketinghub.com/how-much-do-youtubers-make/#:~:text=On%20average%2C%20a%20YouTuber%20earns,%2418%20for%20every%201%2C000%20views.
https://medium.com/swlh/how-much-does-youtube-pay-516ea8cd338d
I don't remember where I looked it up. This page has a similar rate: https://gegcalculators.com/youtube-cost-per-view-calculator/
Remember that "on average" is a slippery term. There are different kinds of average. There is mean, mode and median. The mean for youtubers will skew much higher than the median, for instance, but the median will give you something more realistic for what you should expect to make. In fact half of creators will make less than the median, and even then that's if we're excluding all non-earning channels. Mode is even more representative for what you should expect, since it's the most common amount, and I expect it would be lower still.
The distribution of incomes for youtubers is probably quite extreme, with a long, low tail and a sharp rise at the high end. Similar to this:
https://static01.nyt.com/images/2011/05/24/business/economy/economix-24percentilechart/economix-24percentilechart-custom1.jpg
Of course I can't show you the real thing because youtube actively suppresses this information, which tells you it can't be something they're proud of. Unfortunately that leaves us in the position of relying on blogs and "calculators" that may or may not be reliable, but anyone seeking to market towards youtube creators has an incentive to make the market look more lucrative than it is.
Your own source assumes a standard rate of about $2.14 per thousand: https://influencermarketinghub.com/youtube-money-calculator/
That's the calculator from your first link. It's really strange you didn't notice that, unless you read this paragraph:
...and then you didn't notice the weird mathematical alchemy they did where 1000 video views turned into 150 ad views and then suddenly we were talking about the revenue per 1000 ad views. You need to pay attention to when they're talking about cost per view, revenue per view, and whether it's per ad view or per video view.
This has creators at the lower end earning about $2 per thousand: https://www.businessinsider.com/how-much-money-youtube-creators-make-per-1000-views-rpm-2021-5?op=1
But remember, these are the people who were successful enough to warrant interviewing. The sample bias already selects for the people who are making more money than most.
Your list of sources seemed to originally include an article like this one, but perhaps you read it and realised it said something you didn't like and removed it. I can't tell. Lemmy doesn't show edit histories yet.
Anyway, don't make bald assertions and then only demand sources when someone disagrees. It looks pretty disingenuous.
I don't disagree with you, I'm just saying that YouTube is nothing without both its creator and viewers.
A viewer-exodus and a creator-exodus would be tied together, they both feedback into each other.
I even get why YouTube doubledown on catering to their advertisers over the creators and viewers, that's just money talking.
I'm just saying I don't owe them my time or attention.
They would hardly be the first Internet giant to fall, thinking they're too big to fail, not that I see it happening soon though.
Very true. But if Reddit didn't fall I very much doubt YouTube will.
Perhaps you and I might leave, but it won't be enough.
And creators wont leave despite making less and less from youtube and relying more and more ftom direct support from fans, like through patreon.
I went through a period of de-googling a couple of years ago. Swapping browser, mobile os, search engine, storage, maps, music, video purchases, voice assistant and even email service was relatively simple, there are alternatives out there which do the job just as well if not better than what Google offer.
The only exception is YouTube, yea there are individual sites that occasionally offer some of the videos I want (often with a subscription attached), there are some federated systems like NewPipe which have some videos but there is no one offering remotely the quantity or quality of what you can get on YouTube for free.
As the article states, it’s basically a monopoly at this point without a viable alternative.
What are you using instead for Maps and email?
I use Organic maps and K9 mail
k9 mail has a really poor rating on the app store. I hear Thunderbird will be revamping it though. Are you happy with where it is at right now?
Yeah, it works great. I haven't had any problems
I've had good success with FairEmail its open source and on Fdroid appstore but google made it so it will only work if you download through the play store which is BS.
Definitely fair email, code is solid and so is the dev. Its got more features for customization than any other mobile email client. Super frequently updated too. And no ads even in the unpaid version.
Apple Maps and Fastmail.
Fastmail is paid but the 1Password and disposable email address system makes it worth it for me.
What FOSS mobile OS are you using?
Non-Google Android.
GrapheneOS
Not going to happen. Most of us, and the ones making the service profitable pay.
You have no value for Google and lemmy isn't a population Google cares about in the first place.
Exactly, I had people tell me that we should support YouTube, because it costs money and if we don't it will disappear.
I would celebrate the day it would happen, YouTube is actually the reason we don't have much competition there. They used their position and Google monopoly in other areas to establish this monopoly.
There's creators out there running a non YouTube channel in parallel, mostly on Odysee. Good to see an alternative out there.
I just looked up Odysee. They use Google AdSense on their site, so really all you’re getting is a bad YouTube
Right enough. They're also owned by Google! Probably not a good alternative then. PeerTube any good?
Fwiw, Google doesn’t own Odysee https://twitter.com/LBRYcom/status/1321862776780980225
They probably do smell.
I’ve heard of PeerTube, but haven’t looked into it yet
The only one I know of is Nebula, and I only know of it because of ads. Ironically, ads on YouTube.
That is and big if though. Yeah you, me and half the people here might leave over this, but we block ads already and so are not highly valued to YouTube or a lot of the creators and are only a small drop in the ocean of viewers.
YouTube is betting on more people turning off ad blockers then those that leave. And i am glad to see that it might be having a small effect on more people actually discovering ad blockers instead. Which I bet is something YouTube did not expect to see.
No one in the 90s could imagine the internet without AOL or Yahoo either, and yet..
Or the great Myspace collapse of 2008. Digg before that. Tumblr most recently.
Big sites go boom fairly often.
Now, watching Google go Boom, that's gonna be like modules breaking loose of the ISS and rez-entering the atmosphere. Drawn out over months, as one wing goes, government breaks up another wing, class action lawsuits bankrupt another wing.
Alphabets circling the drain. And good. Fuck em. Fuck Apple, Fuck Meta, Fuck Amazon, Fuck Reddit.
Just a couple more years now and imma nominate Craig from Craigslist for all the years nobel prizes for officially winning the internet.
Specific niche forums, Craigslist and Wikipedia are the last bits of honestness and fun online. And ymmv with Craigslist people being honest.
In what world Craigslist is honest and Alphabet is circling the drain? They make billions of profit per quarter and they have majority control of the biggest two platforms worldwide (mobile and web). We are not in the wild west years of the early web. It will be decades before Meta or Alphabet collapse, in favor of TikTok or a similar, or even worse, competitor. Mastodon and lemmy are an exception and a niche, not a rule.
Wishing something very hard doesn't make it true.
Can't fucking wait to see Google disbanded hopefully in my lifetime , then Amazon
Top execs fucking dragged to the street and get their just desserts drawn and quartered.
Why would creators leave? They only earn money from users that watch ads or use premium. Ad blocker users leaving doesn't affect them.
And if you "just leave", guess what? You just saved them a few bucks in bandwidth. It's a win-win for them.
It's YouTube, they don't need "exposure". They are out to make a profit.
I donate to creators I like.