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USA is cursed!
(lemmy.world)
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this post was submitted on 27 Dec 2023
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Unpopular Opinion
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As a UK resident with US relatives, it seems the same way to me too. If we look at gun ownership, the experiment of allowing such easy access has seemingly failed continuously. The rest of the world has clear evidence of the direct relationship between easy gun access of excess deaths and massacres. Sadly when it comes to funding bullies in other countries, the UK is on a par with the US.
The United States could put a fraction of its military funding towards mental healthcare and social safety nets and cut firearm deaths down 90% without even touching 2A. Similarly, gun ownership could be stopped overnight and shave maybe a few percentages off deaths. Countries with similar gun ownership (as percentages of households with at least one gun, 'gun per 100 people' statistics are not a fair comparison) to the US include Switzerland, Norway, and Finland, at 29%, 26%, and 38%, respectively, compared to America's 31%. If there really was such a direct correlation, these countries would have dramatically more gun deaths than their neighbors but don't.
Buying a gun in the US isn't anywhere nearly as easy as you make it seem. You don't just walk into the gun store and leave with an AR-15, a la Grand Theft Auto. The application process alone is several hundred dollars and takes weeks. For handguns, this may take months or thousands of dollars depending on locality. You're subject to a background check, which is permantly logged, regardless of its results, and if you pass, your weapon, and you are both logged. Oh, and if the dealer at any point gets cold feet or doesn't like you, they can cancel the transaction at any point. People convicted of even a non-violent crime or felony can not own a firearm in most cases. A history of any mental illness also exempts purchase eligibility, as well as people prescribed certain medications. There are lots of things preventing most people from buying a gun in America.
There are some archaic laws about private sales, but there have been no studies showing these guns are more likely to be used in a crime when they've been involved in a legal private sale. Not to mention the fact that these laws are very quickly being overwritten.
The difference is not the gun ownership rates, it's the lack of effective check, measures and training. Quite literally, any idiot can own a gun in the US. The mental health element is relevant, but not 90 relevant.
Do you have any numbers to back this up? Because nearly half of all firearm sales were blocked In 2021 (42% of all requests, 300,000 total declined). These aren't 300,000 people who were barred from buying firearms. These are people who thought they could and were still denied.
Re private sales: these people are still required to exercise good judgement and failure to do so can net them as accomplices to any crimes the buyer commits. Not to mention the fact that many guns are banned entirely from private sale. Handguns in particular, in most localities need a police officer present for all trades or transactions. Anecdotally, private sellers are much stricter in who/what they'll sell to than private sellers.
The total number of blocked firearms sales in the US taken in isolation is irrelevant. The absolute firearms ownership is about 31% in some EU countries, less in others. Yet the total and proportional number of shootings and mass shootings is so completely different. Here we see that it's which proportion of the population that owns a gun. Just check, compare and contrast the actual requirements to purchase a gun within the UK or the EU with those in the US. You really don't have to work very hard to find the comparisons. The issue to hand would be that if similar requirements were applied in the US, the number of people declined a firearm would likely double, but also, those in lawful possession would need to give up their firearms. The definition, the checks undertaken and the ongoing assessme for responsible gun ownership is different in the UK and the EU.
Disclaimer: I have a personal rule against responding to the same argument more than three times so I may read what you reply but won't be responding
I didn't take it in isolation. You said that any idiot in the US can own a gun, and I gave statistical proof that that statement is false.
Congratulations, you're seeing what lack of mental healthcare access and social safety nets has on a population. Let's look at the proportional number of people who are given access to adequate mental specialists and don't grind themselves to death at work and relax by watching quote-unquote News designed specifically to induce anxiety and paranoia.
Even within the context of America:America, your argument doesn't hold up. If "More guns = More deaths," then the opposite should be true: "more firearm deaths means higher ownership," but that isn't the case. Gun ownership in the US has stayed pretty steady for the past fifty years (please see the legend), yet gun death rates have more than doubled in that time. I don't see how you can look at this data and conclude that guns are the cause of these deaths (the majority being suicide), and not a symptom of something larger.
This is a complete pipe dream and is the reason why arguing with Europeans about US gun regulation is a waste. Firearm legislation, with a few very broad and defining pieces of regulation, is handled by states or local municipalities exclusively. The federal government legally could not enforce these laws on the state level. So, assuming that you could accomplish the Herculean task of getting all of these governments to agree, and after all appeals had gone through the courts, the seizure process alone would take decades. It's a conclusion that isn't founded in reality. You might as well be saying that we should invent a superhuman serum to prevent gun deaths.
Just so that my argument isn't being misunderstood, I want to state it very clearly: I am not saying that - in a vacuum, conceptually - full gun prohibition does not prevent gun deaths. I'm not stupid enough to say that a room of 100 people is just as likely to have such an incident if one of those people has a gun as if none of them do. But I believe that that same room of 100 people is more likely to have an incident if one person with severe untreated mental illness has a gun than if there are fifty well-adjusted weekend skeet shooters with shotguns. In other words, the quantity of guns alone does not indicate the likelihood of any gun violence.
I'm saying that your argument and the conclusion thereof is horribly Eurocentric and shows a lack of knowledge on US culture or government.
Perhaps we've reached the point where we have now demonstrated that you aren't able to offer solutions, just obstacles to change.