I'm going to try and keep this clear and concise.
I'm not confident in my parenting. I don't feel like I've been a good parent, but I have done the best that I can with the tools and resources that I have.
My 18 y/o has lived with us since she was 4. My partner has been in my 18y/o's life since they were 13 months old.
18y/o is copy->paste of their deadbeat mother and I don't know what to do about it. I don't know what I can do about it at this point.
I have tried to instill structure, while allowing wiggle room at times. I recognize that it's my job as the parent to draw hard lines and it's my kids job to push the boundaries and cross those lines.
18y/o is almost mute around us. Doesn't communicate much of anything beyond surface level 'pleasantries'. And it's more often than not, anything but pleasant. They (biological female) are diagnosed with ADHD, 'change disorder', anxiety and depression. I've done so much reading trying to figure out this person and how I can help, but nothing seems to help. Kid has never really be honest with therapists. Lies for no reason, and doubles down even when presented with irrefutable evidence that they've been caught. If I had to 'self-diagnose', they have ODD and are a sociopath, but I've seen how they behave around friends and peers. They only have disregard for us. Outside the home, they are a people pleaser. But if we suggest something, or ask for something to be done, it's a fight, every time.
They are a senior in high school, is a good student when there's nothing rocking their boat, but had steadily declining grades as the school year presses on. I have no idea what's going on in their life, everything is responded to with a random selection of the following list:
I don't know
I don't remember
I don't know how you want me to answer that
Do you want me to respond?
I don't see what the problem is.
I don't see how this is a big deal.
The current argument is regarding whether we should be expected to wake them up for school in the morning. I've already put my foot down about it, and since December 1st, they've already walked themselves to school twice because they overslept.
They are impossible to motivate. When things finally come to a head and an argument breaks out, which typically boils over because there can be no constructive conversation with someone who is either unable or unwilling to have a conversation. And only when the argument breaks out do we get any action on anything, and then it's an overcorrection. For example, we've been pushing for them to fill out scholarship applications for 8 months. We've had friends provide spreadsheets with links to what we collectively think are viable scholarships, for no action responses. Then when we finally get a break in the wall, they fill out scholarship applications for tens of thousands of dollars for enrollment in a school states away with misleading GPA information. We are not in a financial position to accommodate that kind of enrollment, even if we wanted to support the decision. It comes off as an "I'll show them" move.
Nevermind the drivers license thing. Can't get them to get off their ass and get their license. It's been a battle for 2 years. Something always goes wrong. Last time I pressed on it hard, we ended up in intensive outpatient therapy.
They're unmanageable and I don't know what to do for or with them. Our home is small, 800 sqft and it's a hell hole. My partner has almost left me twice over this kid's behavior over the years. Partner and kid do not get along at all at this point, and has lead to a false CPS report so my kid could try and move in with their crush's family.
There so much context missing but there's no time or room for 18 years of back story.
I don't know if there's a question here, but I need help or support, or something. Any stories or advice anyone cares to relay would be appreciated. I'm terrified that once this kid leaves, I'm never going to hear from them again. But I can't control that, and I recognize it.
Thanks for reading.
They haven't seen a therapist in a year and only take their meds when they "remember". College is only a conversation we're having because they want to be a character designer (which is a job that doesn't exist). When we bring up our concerns, we're not being supportive. Like, the conversations are impossible.
I have set the expectation that they will not be permitted to freeload. That what their mother did, and I will never fall victim to that again.
What do you mean by “character designer” is a job that doesn’t exist?
Video games, movies, books, any entertainment has “characters” and someone has to create them, right?
Stop comparing your child to their mother, they are their own person. The problems you’re having are with her and not her mother. Give your child the grace to experience life for themself.
At this point in their life given their age your only option is to help paddle their boat, be pragmatic and help them on their journey. It isn’t your journey anymore, you’re just along for their ride.
Prior to the rise of generative ai, there were a collective of 8-15 positions in the United States for a character designer. Speaking very broadly, it's typically a contracted position, and not steady work. Usually undertaken by a design firm that does other things as well. I have only been able to have that conversation with them very recently that they should aim for that position, but be prepared to have a more diverse toolset. It's been a fight every time. All I'm asking them to do is look outside of their bubble. And even then, only managed to get any traction when they couldn't find "character design" as a collegiate major.
I am not comparing them to their mother. I am protecting myself from what I have already experienced both with the mother and themselves and setting my expectations. If I allowed it, my kid would just melt into their bed at every waking moment. And that isn't an exaggeration. Either they go to college, or they prepare to pay rent. I'm not typically this kind of person, I'd rather nurture a much healthier relationship, but I feel like they haven't left me with much choice. There has been ~~nothing ~~ very little rewarding about being a parent in this relationship*, and I'm tired, worn out and sad.
*Anything that I have taken an interest in to try and be supportive has been met with a slapped face of push back.
There are thousands and thousands of people designing characters for money at any given moment in our world. You don't go to character design school, get a character design degree, and then get a job designing characters. You learn to write, make concept art, 3d modelling, animation, wardrobe, make up, or acting, then take those skills and join a team doing that portion of the character design work. But often it's the writers who create the soul of a character, that's where they should start unless they've specifically interested in creating how they look. Get them into a screenplay writing course or something?
That's my point, they only want to design characters. Suggesting anything more is clearly preposterous and how dare I. It's taken 3 years of having the same conversation to get my teen to realize that you need more than that. They're impossible to communicate with, and more often than not, frustration takes over. Simple conversations become marathons of trying to force understanding from both sides.
And this is how it's always been. 😮💨
Perhaps there’s a breakdown in communication that you’re missing.
They want to be a character designer. They have a very set definition of what that is, and they see it as a sole persons job. Ultimatey, they don’t have the exposure to reality to conceptualize how the corporate (or even the starving-artist) world works to know that a single “character” has multiple levels to their design that are each a very integral part of the finished product, and each of those requires a very specific focus and set of skills…whether that be concept art, clay modeling, 3D modeling, graphic design, wardrobe, voice-acting, makeup, backstory, dialogue, etc.
Helping them to understand that will help them to understand the need to specialize, hopefully towards something they already have some natural aptitude in. And that specialization (as a writer, or artist, or fashionista) will have value in job markets outside of whatever field they peg “character design” in. Now they have multiple career options while still being able to practice the craft that brings them enjoyment.
Helping you to understand that may help you to understand why so much “character development” is contractor work. Except it’s not just the piecemeal nature of it, that’s just how corporate world is now. Steady W2 work is hard to come by for a lot of careers in the space between “high school diploma or GED required” and “must have at least 3 post-graduate degrees in a related field and 20 years of work experience in a field that only existed for 10”.
Just don’t stress the multiple options too much. They sound like the type of person who would get analysis paralysis. That’s not a bad thing in itself, it means they are very aware of action/consequence…it just leads to some bit of anxiety which then results in a stalemate.
These two statements would seem to contradict each other, so I hope you can forgive people here for being confused on this point.
Are you going to therapy? Everything you've written points to an extremely dysfunctional relationship with your child. It might help.
Good luck, but TBH I don't really see this improving. It's not an easy dynamic to untangle/defuse.
We have been in family therapy on and off over the years. We're currently in an off period. When in therapy they make little sense and resort to whst I can only describe as incoherent babbling fabricating things that never happened. We've had several therapists stop them and tell them that they're not making sense or questioning something they said only for our teen (I should stop saying kid) to respond with "Nevermind I can't get the words out" or "well it made sense to me".
Part of this is just emotional speaking, so forgive me if there's some contradiction. Just because I say they ware copy paste, in my eyes that's not a comparison, as much as it's context. But I understand your point.
Ah, I think I understand. You're seeing parallels without meaning it in the sense of comparing them? But the context is lost on me; I don't know any of the sins of your ex.
Re: therapy, I meant individual therapy, for yourself, to unpack your relationship with your kid. If things are as bad as you describe, I do think it would help.
Beyond that, well, I don't know. The list of responses from your post smacks of your kid thinking "This is a trap question, no matter what I answer, I'm going to get in trouble" (especially the "I don’t know how you want me to answer that" one). Are they into stuff that you'd flip your lid if you knew about? Are they just afraid that you'll be unsupportive if you know what they're actually thinking? All this is hard for a random internet stranger to know.
I'll say it again, good luck. I wish I had something more helpful to tell you :(
I should add, kid isn't even a good household citizen or even as far as roommate goes. They have literally two responsibilities, clean up after having a meal cooked for them, and keep the recycling can from overflowing. They never do either of those things unprompted and it always boils over into a fight eventually. Screen door never gets latched and we have to dedicate an entire day to laundry because it won't get done on its own or in a timely manner. They take no responsibility for anything and everything is someone else's fault to them. We often take the brunt of the anger whenever something tips their apple cart, whether it's biomom or school or a rainy day. It matters little.
It honestly sounds like you could cut the tension in your house with a knife.
Y’all need to chill. You both need individual therapy so you can both figure out a constructive way to unpack your relationship and essentially fight a proxy war between your two therapists.
Moreover, you two need serious, positive, parent/offspring bonding. You need to realize that your kid doesn’t feel welcome in your house or around you. They feel trapped because they have no other option. This is a highly stressful situation. It’s met with tension and panic and fight/flight/freeze. This is plain as day to see if you step back and breathe for a moment. Figure out something you two can enjoy where there’s little outside responsibility and maybe the two of you can share a smile. It sounds like you desperately need that.
Trust me, I try. Constantly reaching out. Never reciprocal. Sporting events, concerts, breakfast, we're doing something every week, teen is always included in the conversation, always "no". We haven't had game night in years because I gave up trying to get them to join us.
Join kid. What does kid like to do? Can you go along to it?
Kid is clearly not part of "we". Kid needs to be part of "we". Otherwise, for all the lip service you are doing about how you are reaching out, you've othered kid.
Your kid really sounds a lot like I did at that age. Reclusive (that may come across as lazy), hotheaded, etc. If you hadn’t already, I implore you to read my response to another commenter giving a story on how that played out.
This sounds like depression on top of all else. I wouldn’t take the reclusiveness personally. Shutting you out like that is them metaphorically curling up into a ball and shutting off the outside world.
It’s funny because I was just thinking about that point in my life, when I was going through depression. It’s obvious to me, looking back, but hindsight is 20:20.
I thought about this, because my nephews dad has stage iv cancer, and I worry about him and what he’ll do without his dad around (I never personally cared for the dad, I wish him well and got no ill will towards him, we just never clicked, but the nephews a good kid and a blank slate who got handed shitty parents with money who try to use the money to make up for being shitty people….but I digress).
Anyways, final stop on the thought train…I started wishing that I had some sort of adult mentor/life-coach/confidant…someone with wisdom, who is open minded, and most importantly not my parents. Essentially a therapist but in a much more casual level. Like Tommy Chong in That 70s Show. A second dad. I feel like uncles are supposed to fill that role but it could really be my trusted mature adult they have a close relationship with.
Somebody like that would have been so helpful in dealing with all the pressures that went along with being a teenager (and I’m sure it’s actually a million times worse now, with social media and being always on and hustle-culture and a quite uncertain environmental and political future (and that, for your kid, probably even worse being LGBTQ), on tops of just getting through school. There were a million things I needed guidance on but just could not talk to (gasp) my parents about. We just didn’t have that kind of relationship, and I had nowhere to go.
Does your kid have anybody like that? Because it sounds like they desperately need someone older and wiser to speak candidly about their life with, and they aren’t seeing you as that person. And don’t take that personally. I’m sure you had plenty of things you needed to talk to an adult about when you were growing up, but wouldn’t dare think of asking your parents, too.
Aside from that…the bonding activities that you suggested…are these things that they enjoy? If there’s depression then they may not want to be out eating in public with their dad. Let alone being in a large crowd (especially if they are neurodivergent and can get overstimulated easily like at a concert).
Thinking critically if you’ve shared these events in the past, did they really enjoy it? Or were they trying to make you happy, or did they feel obligated (and now, being older, they maybe now feel a bit more confident in saying no).
How’s the weather where you are? Maybe a nice walk or a bike ride. Something quiet. Calm. Casual. Where there’s privacy enough for a good conversation but still not feeling totally isolated with you. And as corny as it sounds, light exercise is really, really good for depression. Something about sunlight and fresh air that just does your mind good.
I read it while waking up this morning, I want to revisit this whole thread over the weekend. I'm burned out on this whole situation at the moment. I was looking for a little support and outside perspective with this thread, especially since I recognize that I'm too close to the situation at this point. I appreciate the attention you've given each of my comments. I don't claim to be right about any of this, I recognize that I am not the greatest parent, I didn't have great role models and have largely been left to figure it out. My teen was born when I was 23, so it's been a learning experience, to say the least.
Teen was diagnosed with anxiety and depression years ago, hence the constant therapy. Getting them to take their meds with regularity has always been a struggle. I absolutely recognize that these are depressive spirals. But I can't help someone who isn't willing to help themselves. But I also recognize that is a paradoxical statement. In a depressive spiral or a manic episode, it's not that a person is unwilling, it's that they're unable. Like, none of this is lost on me. I'm lost about can be done about it. Professionals have told me "Nothing. They have to hit rock bottom." My comments about ODD and ASPD are strictly from the angle of it being impossible for me to do anything to help, because my teen goes out of the way to actively resist anything that comes from my partner or I. It's so bad that recently my teen had a revelation about something that I had already suggested to them 2 weeks prior, because it came from a teacher they respect. I asked them what changed their mind and they "didn't remember" that I suggested it. It was a hot button issue that they got heated over when I suggested it.
I have been suggesting for some time now that perhaps they need to consider a new therapist for exactly this reason. They have a great connection with a couple of teachers that I work with one on one professionally, so I know there's a least some connection there, and I'm greatful for that. I have concerns regarding how we're perceived, but at this point, it is what it is. I know my truth.
I have put it out there for them to suggest activities. I'm (really) an easy person to get along with. I can find something redeeming in most activities. The ND stuff is a little tricky for me because I can get behind not going to a punk rock show, but I've been in the area of a show they went to with friends and it was rowdier than some of the bands I've seen. But it's their scene vs. my scene, and I get that. Video games are a big one, however infrequently they suggest one, I always take the opportunity. We have a collection of tabletop games as well as couch co-op PC games (like seriously dozens. We're the party entertainment in our family). They tell me they want to play more VR games, and I've made myself available at a whim to set it up and get it going. But I'm not going to badger them to play. As for restaurants, we have a rolling schedule, every weekend, diner for breakfast, Saturday 10:30. They are always invited, the plan is always confirmed the evening before, and every Friday night, we get "Yeah I'll be up in time" and every Saturday morning, it's hours of oversleeping. It's been as late as 1:30 in the afternoon before my partner says "fuck it, I'm not waiting any longer" before starting her cleaning routine to the attitude we receive for waking them up.
No idea. There have been times where it feels overtly obvious that they're just forcing it. I've mentioned that they seem distracted, and if they had somewhere else they'd rather be/something else they'd rather be doing and that they were free to go do those things and we could raincheck, they have gotten defensive and belligerent with me about it. And when I have said that "hanging out right now just feels forced" they have broken down into tears and said that they didn't feel that way. Obviously I apologized, but it's just crazy to me how I'm expected to know what's going on in their head when they're unwilling to communicate in any way.
It's like no matter what, I'm always wrong, and fuck me for even trying. It's kind of why I feel like I've landed on this plateau of "whatever". I feel like I'm extending an olive branch only to have it smacked away by a torch and I'm running out of branches.
We used to go for walks a lot. It's a trigger fest because when they were younger, we constantly had to remind them to hit the bathroom before hand, for a fight to break out "I don't have to pee", we'd say "try", it would turn into a shouting match. We go on a walk, only for them to pee themselves. At 13. Road trips were similar, 1 hour drive to get to family around the holidays, same argument, same result. We have struggled with some form of difficulty since they were five. My comments have largely been misconstrued because I failed to relay information well enough in some of my other comments here. That's on me, and I'll own it.
You seem to be in a better space now reading your more recent comments. I’m hoping that means you’ve taken the opportunity to breathe and look at the big picture, holistically and objectively.
It sounds like you honestly want to be a present and positive influence in your kids life. That’s great. The problem now is that your kid isn’t very receptive to it.
From what I see, that’s a combination of normal teenagerdumb, plus some added neurodivergency, depression, and being LGBTQ in a world that sends a lot of mixed messages as to whether or not it’s ready to accept them. Thats tough. You have my deepest sympathies.
The wetting on walks or going out is exactly what my therapist has forwarned me about if we’re not able to get past our potty training regressions. Turns out anal retentive behavior in toddlerhood, if not worked out actually works out to poor personality traits in adulthood. And, it turns out anal retentive behavior can be a lot to do with how potty training was even handled. It can easily lead to a power struggle, holding until discomfort, or even holding till constipation pushes on the bladder and they can’t help but pee right now.
So, maybe, if you want to blame your ex for something, you can blame her for that.
Don’t forget that there is another option. You leave them alone and let them work things out on their own. Be present and supportive, let them know that you’re there for them, and give them space and time and comfort to sort it out themselves. If this is the path you go on, it’s critical that you mind your attitude, especially around them. You don’t want to do anything to give them the perception that they are unwelcome. Calling doing so a triggerfest would be a bad thing. It’s imperative to realize that they are in a dark spot. They need help but at the same time want to be left alone. They are getting torn apart from the inside at several levels. Any reaction they give is just that…a reaction. For a depressed person, the person they present to the world is a shell of themselves running on autopilot. There’s a ton going on below the surface and that’s where all their focus is, and they just want you to get away from it, because your presence is harming their recovery.
If you haven’t experienced depression before, congratulations.
Though it sounds like you may be even starting to. Constantly fighting battles to end in a stalemate at best every time is a good way to get there. It’s bad enough you two are feeding off each other, it’ll be worse when you’re both in the pits of it.
Hard work fine, and hard work good…but first take care of head.
maybe consider that it is your resentment of their mother that you are clearly projecting on to them, and your ignorance and dismissal of neurodiversity that are the problem, not the teenager trying to develop and exist in what amounts to an unsupportive environment, your whole post oozes of it.
Ever consider they don't want to go to college? Or to drive? Ever stop for second to think what the world is like for someone with ADHD and depression? Why those things might be undesirable? (edit to clarify: driving and college being undesirable to a neurodivergent person, not neurodiversity being undesirable)
You're not interested in who they actually are, since you've already decided for yourself ("copy paste" of your ex) and are treating them accordingly. You are the fucking parent.
You're right about one thing - once they leave they probably won't want anything to do with you, and it'll be the best thing for them, but the fact that you've convinced yourself that it is out of your control rather than solely in it says it all.
I received a text that said "all done" after their shift at work tonight. I said "I'm on my way", arrived my teen got in the car said "hey" I responded 'whats up' and we drove home in silence. No "thanks for picking me up" nothing at all. And when my partner said "you know you could thank your dad for picking you up" my teen responded "I did". They did not.
They are rude, and have abandoned any lessons we instilled when they were younger with us. They have decided what kind of people we are as well. The relationship is disfunctional, for sure, but it is not solely my fault. I have tried to provide support networks, they have been on therapy since they were six.
Please try and understand that this has gotten worse over the years even whole in family therapy and one on one therapy for all of us.
The response is, "I hear you telling me that you did. I believe you. Your brain is telling you that you did. My brain is telling me that you didn't. So, help me out here, and do it again so that I can shut my brain up?"
Because you do believe them, right? Otherwise you are insisting they lie to your face. "Hey, I know you aren't thankful whatsoever but I'm going to need you to say the exact opposite to me, k. Give me a full 180 degree lie from your actual feelings on the matter. I'm not interested in you, just in rituals."
Also, it is super great that your kid is rude to you. I know it doesn't seem that way, but it means that despite all the rest of your dysfunctions, kiddo feels secure in your unending support. We fawn where we think we stand to be abandoned. Kiddo isn't fawning. Kiddo knows they won't be abandoned. That's a great seed from which a beautiful relationship can grow once some brambles are trimmed back. (Note, this rude-is-good is only for child-to-parent. No other relationship can this rule be applied to.)
Those quotes better be because you are direct quoting them and not because you are trying to induce doubt. It is very well known that people with ADHD have trouble remembering (notice, no quotes here) to take their medication. ADHD is an executive function disorder; meaning they have executive dysfunction. Memory is an executive function. What safety net does the family have for the child's memory failing them? What are your guardrails?
Have you actually planned, strategized, restructured around the needs of one of the inhabitants in your home?
You know the old adage, "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me."? Looks like no matter how many times your child has their typical struggles, as their outsourced executive function coach and substitute executive function, you haven't done your part. It's not shame on your child anymore ;)
I'll give you a gimme and if it helps, then you can follow up by engaging the services of an ADHD coach -- For those who forget to take their medication, put the medication AND WATER next to the bed. Set two alarms. The first one they wake up and take their meds without having to move anything more than their arm. Then they can go back to sleep. The second alarm, a half hour later (because most ADHD meds reach efficacy a half hour after consumption), is their real get up for the day alarm. They should be able to get up more easily due to the efficacy of the medication. It will take 102 practice days, so for 102 days, you need to get up with the first alarm and supervise that the medication has been taken. After that, the routine will be well worn in so that it can be relied on.
Or, if that's too much effort on your part -- Talk to their psychiatrist about moving them to a non-stimulant. Nonstimulants build up in the system and can tolerate several skipped days while still offering benefits. Stimulants cannot seeing as how they lose efficacy within 24 hours.
I hear you. I understand that ADHD is an executive function problem, well informed. The guardrails have been in place for years. We have provided tools. We have provided suggestions. Solutions, and even asked "What would work for you?". We've worked with therapists and psychologists to try to instill habits, but my teen is extremely headstrong and wickedly (falsely) independent. There is nothing more I can do for them unless they want to ask it of me.
My teen learns nothing from their experiences, and does nothing to instill their own good habits. At 18, what else am I supposed to do for them? I've been trying to help for years.
In my state, this was off the table at 16, when my teen decided not to waiver me to advocate for their mental health care because they were (and to some degree still are) convinced that I am the source of all that is wrong in their world. I can't fix that.